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Found out I had pelvic exams done without my consent

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  • #31
    Tip and IBS, I respect your opinion and welcome your comment.

    I do respectfully disagree, however, and maintain my position that I should have been allowed the chance to give informed consent to this procedure.

    The doctor had a choice whether or not to let med students in, and to do pelvic exams on me while I was under. I had no such choice. I should mention that this procedure does NOT call for a pelvic exam. Nor was it done for my benefit - it was done PURELY to train medical students. There is absolutely NO reason the doctor could not have ASKED for my consent beforehand.

    I was not given a choice, however. I was violated while under anesthesia. My only choice now is - do I report it or not? And I choose to report it, in order to save other women this assault.

    A similar situation exists in regards with sexual abusers. I was raped by family members growing up, from the time I was a small child. Over and over again, repeatedly. They laughed at me when I cried. The men greatly enjoyed making me suffer.

    Many people (mostly men, to be honest) tell me to forgive and forget and not tell anyone about the abuse. They are uncomfortable with my anger and with my lack of letting it slide.

    The only way to make changes happen for the better in this world is to fight for them.

    It is wrong for men to rape women, in my opinion.

    I was medically raped under anesthesia. I have the right to report that and to fight on behalf of others.

    It's okay for you to feel sorry for the doctor, to feel sorry for the abusers who raped me as a child - to try to tell me that I shouldn't speak up, shouldn't try to push for changes - but it's also okay for me to disagree with you, and for me to do what I think is right for me and right in a moral sense.

    I have read studies about this, and consistently it is found that men don't see the "big deal" with child sexual abuse, rape of women, etc. They just, by-and-large, don't "get" it. They think women should just let it slide, they think women should just change their attitudes and learn to enjoy being raped.

    Not every man feels this way, but a great many do - the majority do, according to studies. I find that distressing and unfortunate, but it's a reality.

    If you asked those same men, how would you feel if you found out a male homosexual doctor had violated you while you were unconscious - you would likely get a reply along the lines of, "I wouldn't like it very much."

    Blessings,
    Lori
    Last edited by ICLori; 04-10-2007, 10:37 PM.

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    • #32
      I don't want to get into an argument about this sensitive subject.
      Especially in this forum.I just want to say that i didn't knew it was a "rape" or internal exam.I'm sorry ICLori.

      I have delete my post.
      Thanks for remind me by quoting me tho.
      Last edited by Tip and IBS; 04-09-2007, 08:41 AM.

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      • #33
        Lori
        This is one of the most profound and disturbing things I have read...most likley ever. I am so concerned about you. I am physically sick from this. It is a complete violation of trust. It reminds me of childhood abuse and a breach of trust from my prior urologist who performed a hydro on me while I was completly awake no sedation and wouldn't stop. I can't begian to imagine what is going through your head right now. Charges being filed would be a given. I know it will be difficult as you probably would perfer to move on. Thats how I was after my assult. FIGHT LORI! I wonder how many other women go through this without ever knowing? The thought of it makes my stomach turn. A woman intubated in the or on a ventalator being put up in stirups unaware of whats going on. Its like the date rape is it not? I support you in whatever way I can. I have tremendous anxiety about my upcomming interstim trial being heavily sedated and all. I plan on writting on my abdomen "I do not authorize medical students or residents to perform pelvic exams on me while I am sedated. No medical student/Resident participation authorized." I think I might even go crazy and put the sharpie to the inner thighs too. Thanks for sharing this Lori. I know it was so hard to do. You have spared some of us this terrible burden by sharing your story. Thanks again.

        Sending sympothy and love,

        Erika
        IC diagnosed officially via cysto/urodynamics 1/26/07

        Grade II Endometriosis diagnosed via lap 12/11/07

        "Fall down seven times, Stand up eight."

        "Life is a tragedy for those who feel and a comedy for those who think."

        Current Treatments:
        Interstim Since 5/25/07!
        Birth Control

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        • #34
          Amen, Amy!!!!!!!!!!!!

          Lori...You know how I feel about this. I think what was done to you is criminal and I am so glad for every woman's sake that you are going to take this legal. This man and everyone else involved in this despicable act deserve to be punished for this.

          I want to take this opportunity to say publicly, as I have said in private...THANK YOU for posting about this and giving us a huge wake up call that this too can happen to us. You deserve a "red badge of courage" for going public about this.

          Sharon

          Shopping??? Did someone mention shopping? I'll get my hat... ;-)

          Where I can be found most days.



          Link to the ICN Patient Handbook:
          http://www.ic-network.com/handbook/

          Link to the IC Diet:
          http://www.ic-network.com/diet/


          IC Volunteers are not medical authorities nor do we offer medical advice. In all cases, we strongly encourage you to discuss your medical treatment with your personal medical care provider. Only they can, and should, give medical recommendations to you.

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          • #35
            I second that sharon. Comming forward as a victim of assult is very scary. Lori did us a huge favor by warning us of the severity of the situation. Lori is a strong and brave woman.

            Erika
            IC diagnosed officially via cysto/urodynamics 1/26/07

            Grade II Endometriosis diagnosed via lap 12/11/07

            "Fall down seven times, Stand up eight."

            "Life is a tragedy for those who feel and a comedy for those who think."

            Current Treatments:
            Interstim Since 5/25/07!
            Birth Control

            Comment


            • #36
              Lori,
              I pm'ed you back and knowing where this happened makes me even more angry. Please let me know if I can help in anyway, K?

              Hugs,
              Barb
              (Babs passed away in April 2009. We honor her memory and remember her fondly. - Jill O. ICN President & Founder)

              [SIZE="1"]Proud mama of a gift named Lindsey who taught me through her autism what is important in life:angel:
              :angel: IC Angel Volunteer Coordinator :angel:
              :) Contact me via PM or e-mail if you would like to help
              I have learned all about life in 3 words: It goes on! :D--Robert Frost
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              "Spirit is an invisible force made visible in all of life"--Maya Angelou
              "Ohana means family--no one gets left behind or forgotten." Stitch[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

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              • #37
                Thank you all so much for your continued support. It means so much to me. Helps me to know I'm not crazy for thinking this is an important issue!

                Tip, it's okay, I thought you probably had misunderstood my post. It's easy to do - I misunderstand posts all the time!

                Blessings,
                Lori
                Last edited by ICLori; 04-10-2007, 10:37 PM.

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                • #38
                  Lori,
                  do not know much about US procedures or military hospitals- does it have a complaints procedure or a national complaints procedure for hospitals? Can other people complain ie petition or write to the complaints section of the hospital? If it was in the UK, I would have written and complained to the hospital for you....

                  Thankyou for letting us know that this happens though- is awful in this day and age esp. for ICers for whom pelvic exams can be painful and for everyone as it is violating.

                  yes its true, if guys had had an anal exam performed under anaesthesia by many students, I am sure there would be more fuss by the hospital.
                  IC diagnosis: Aug 2005
                  Symptoms: Urgency, urge and irritation and urethral symptoms
                  Flareup for 1 year til July 2007 (had constant urge and pain et al....)

                  Elmiron 100mg 3x daily April 2006 - present
                  Enablex 7.5mg nightly Sep 2007 -present
                  Atarax, Elavil 10mg nightly (Dec 2007)
                  Acupuncture - November 2007 - present

                  (Past meds for IC- Cystistat, Elavil 30mg, Ditropan, long term a/bs, Prednisolone, Cimetidine, Neurontin)

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                  • #39
                    Lori, I just want you to know how many people stand behind you. I nearly choked when I read your post; I can still taste the bile. You are handling this with tremendous dignity and strength.

                    When I told this story to my husband, he was equally appalled, so I'd like to emphasize that taking the doctor's side is not "THE" male perspective.

                    There is nothing right about what happened to you. You know you will have all the emotional support in the world as you fight back.
                    Je vous souhaite de la joie, de la bonne santée, et tout ce qu'il y a de bon dans la vie.
                    Wishing you happiness and good health, and all the best out of life.

                    Peace, Carolyn
                    ___________________________________________________

                    Laura (11), Susannah (12 1/2) and Maman (that's me!), North Wildwood NJ, September 2007


                    On the Beach with IC

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                    • #40
                      Lori
                      I have just printed the non-consent form from shamexam.org. I strongly encourage all of the website members to do so also. It is quick easy, and the form already says it all. All you need to do is sign, and it goes in your file. Lori thanks, becuase of you I have dodged a bullet.

                      Erika
                      IC diagnosed officially via cysto/urodynamics 1/26/07

                      Grade II Endometriosis diagnosed via lap 12/11/07

                      "Fall down seven times, Stand up eight."

                      "Life is a tragedy for those who feel and a comedy for those who think."

                      Current Treatments:
                      Interstim Since 5/25/07!
                      Birth Control

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Gasp! That is terrible! I know that pre-op consult, I've signed saying I allow people to observe (for my other surgeries). They never said anything about exams, and there were never med students or residents in the room. I don't go to a teaching hospital, so that is why. I have gone to teaching hospitals for appointments before, but the doctor always asks if the students can observe. Me going to be one soon, I always allow them to be there or examine me as long as it isn't pelvic. That is so sad you did not know they were going to examine you (for teaching purposes). I would feel violated and I would bring it up to my doctor and ask, specifically, where you allowed it pre-op (you may have consented without knowing what you were signing).

                        Again, sorry. I would be irate and hurt too.
                        [SIZE="1"][B]Be well, Alyssa :hi:[/B]

                        [

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                        • #42
                          Thank you all so much. I really do think that Tip/IBS misunderstood my post. It's so easy to do - I think many of us have misunderstood what we've read before! So no harm done. I'm sure he understands now and I'm sure he is just as outraged as we are about the situation.

                          Thank you all so much. I am especially glad that the site I found is useful to some people. I'm glad that my experience could help others to avoid the same situation.

                          Thank you Sweetangel for offering to write - military hospitals in the U.S. pretty much don't listen to anyone, LOL :p

                          I think things will be okay. I think the patient advocate will make changes to help other patients, and I think the medical students will still have plenty of willing female volunteers on which to learn.

                          Blessings,
                          Lori
                          P.S. The doctor involved in this called my husband and admitted there was NOTHING on the consent form about medical students and NOTHING about pelvic exams. So therefore I didn't consent. I didn't sign something and not read the small print. The small print just plain old wasn't THERE. They flat out didn't tell me at all. Not in paper, not in words. And the doctor admitted that over the phone to my husband when he violated HIPAA laws and called and spoke to my husband about my medical situation. So I have a credible witness (my husband) to testify if need be.
                          Last edited by ICLori; 04-10-2007, 10:39 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Of course it's a voilation!

                            OMG just reading your post makes my stomache turn. I am a survivor of Rape from years ago, and I never really got over the fear that it brought into my life. I can't imagine the fear that you will have the next time you will need a procedure done under anesthesia. Going under anesthesia is always frightening anyway, and to fear that you will be violated is just wrong! There are so many emotions that go with being violated in that way. I hope you can get through this as best as you can.

                            Then your Dr. kept calling you after you asked him to stop calling... That's wrong too. I sure hope you can find another Dr that can help you with IC without having to crawl back to this JERK.

                            Keep up the good fight for all of us! My thoughts are with you.
                            ~Diane
                            dx: Spastic Bladder, chronic hematuria (that went away?), kidney stone... possible IC

                            Medical History:
                            c-sections: 1988, 1991, 1997
                            Viral Arthritis 1998 (Like RA, but went away!! )
                            Pterygium & Dry Eyes since 2005
                            Hysterectomy (Fibroids) 2006

                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                            Me & Jerry ~ Sammy & Ryan
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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                            • #44
                              IC Lori,
                              I live in Ny and have allowed med students to be involved in exams on two occasions. I had to sign a paper to have a med student watch during my cervical biopsy and I had to sign paper just to allow three dental students just to be in the same room while I had my tooth pulled! I am very hurt and outrages for you! It is one thing to have a med student in the room WITH YOUR CONSENT during an exam, it is completely another to have them doing things completely unrelated to your procedure, without your consent, with you completely under anesthesia! I have felt so violated just because I had a Urologist with a VERY rough touch do a pelvic exam and cause me lots of pain. I had an incident a month ago where I was refused restroom access and was incontinent and that was horrible enough! I can't even begin to imagine how much pain this must be causing you. Thanks for your courage to tell your story and warn us about this! I be signing the form you mentioned saying "no meds students" before I have any surgery in the future! I too hope you can find another IC Doctor. I wouldn't want to be in the same building with that Doctor, let alone in the same room! Did you ever find out if you have rights that would protect you beyond filing the complaint with the patient advocate? I would encourage you to pursue whatever you feel comfortable doing.
                              -Rachel
                              Rachel
                              DX's:
                              IC; PFD; possible Fibromyalgia; IBS;

                              Symptoms: Frequency, Urgency, pelvic and bladder pain, bladder and pelvic spasms, difficulty starting urination, weak stream, incontinence, vaginal and urethral pain

                              I've Tried:
                              three Hydrodistentions, various Rescue Installments; 6 DSMO treatments; Pyridium Plus; Proced; Detrol (patch); Elavil; Uricet K; Elmiron; Nortiptyline; Ultram; Allegra; Ditropan; Ditropan ER; Vesicare; regular Lidocain; Neurontin; Lyrica; and few more I can't remember!
                              Currently using:
                              Valium; Vicadin; Proced DS; Claritin; Buffered Lidocain; Cymbalta; Baclofen; Prazosin @ night (also on Prednisone and Adderall for my joint pain and severe fatigue)
                              Heating pads; frozen water bottles; A&D ointment; Poise pads; IC dieter since 8/06; yoga; imagery & relaxation CD, Mindfullness, self healing CD's; hot baths; seat cushion; prayer
                              I am 28 yrs old, dx'ed in '06, still trying to get my health undercontrol!!

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                              • #45
                                I totally agree with you Lori,no one should have the right to do any medical exam or procedure without your consent. I remember when I had my last hydro, I remember being told that a student would be watching on for learning purposes , but I can't help but wonder what exactly goes on after reading your post. I have never been given a surgical report after any of my 3 hydros and only get minimal info by my uro on his findings and observations regarding my bladder and no pictures. I can understand why you feel violated and upset. Please don't worry about rape, there is no way something like that can take place because usually there is a nurse present and your physician, and other staff so something like that would not be possible. What bothers me is that they don't allow anyone in the OR, to accompany you so you can't know what exactly is done to you, and how the procedure went, and if something does go wrong, it is more than likely that they will try to conceal it and not take any responsibility for it. I sympathize and hope you can heal from this horrible experience.

                                Marsi4

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