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Found out I had pelvic exams done without my consent

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  • #46

    Yeah what i meant was:It can really hurt a male if the "complain" are not real.

    I mean about rape and stuff...


    • #47
      Lori~I want you to do something about this that makes "you" feel better. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Do what it takes for "you". You need to be able to get past this and not have such a horrible feeling hanging over you. Like you, I would be upset about being examined without anyone asking my permission first. I just came out of the hospital Thursday from surgery and couple day stay. I will never have surgery again. That's how I feel about it. I'm going to let my Drs and the Hospital know too. By all these pages of replys you know how strongly everyone feels for you. The Dr wasn't the only one in the operating room--there's a whole room full of people you'd think one of those people woulda coulda raised a question!!!! I don't think some Drs and hospital staff look at you as a person once your put to sleep and put in a hospital room. My last experience is clouding my judgement. Sorry to any and all health care people who really care about your patients.


      • #48
        Lori, I am so very sorry about this happening to you. It still upsets me. Why do doctors think woman's private parts are for all of them to see and practice on?? If you feel you need to press charges against him then you should. Don't let anyone tell you it was nothing . I don't think I would talk to the doctor again. If you get a lawyer let him/her do the talking for you. I know my sister was in the service and she said she always had a learning med doing her pap tests. I know they have to learn some how but it should be with the persons knowledge and nothing more.


        • #49
          That horrible doctor sounds very scared and he should be!! Don't let this go. He needs to pay! Big time!!

          Big Hugs to you!!
          Meds I take:
          Elmiron, Elavil, Vagifem- for IC
          Albuterol, Flovent, Atrovent- for Asthma and lung problems
          Paxil, Clonazepam- for depression and Anxiety
          Atenolol- for rapid heart rate
          Nexium- for Gerd
          Levothyroxin- for Hypothyroidism
          Lasix, Pottasium- for edema
          Lipitor- for High Cholesterol
          I coated aspirin
          02 at bedtime


          • #50
            Thank you all so very much for your kind words and support! Please, don't be afraid that your own doctors did this to you - I am sure nearly all doctors are very ethical and would never do this.

            Military hospitals and military doctors are sometimes....different. They aren't always bad, but sometimes you run into things that just flabbergast a person.

            There's something else that really bugged me about this procedure, and I wanted to ask you guys if you've ever had this happen, or what you think of this.

            I woke up several times during the procedure. There was this curtain thing that started basically at my shoulders and went up to the ceiling which completely blocked my view of the doctors or my own legs etc.

            Normally for a cystoscopy (and every other procedure I've ever had, including laproscopic surgeries) draping is used but you can ALWAYS see the doctor in-between your legs and see what he is doing.

            This time I could not see what they were doing to me, and it upset me at that time and upsets me even more today now that I know they were doing pelvics.

            Do you think they put up that curtain specifically to hide things?

            Is it even legal for them to use that kind of draping for a procedure involving the pelvic area?

            As a patient, do I have the right to request in future surgeries that that type of curtain NOT be used?

            I want to be able to SEE what doctors are doing between my legs.

            P.S. Tip, I did not accuse the doctor of anything not "real."
            Last edited by ICLori; 04-10-2007, 09:40 PM.


            • #51
              I'm reading this thread for the first time and I'm horrified! It's sickening to think that a woman can be violated that way. I do know that medical schools hire people to act as patients and they are examined the way a real patient would be examined, but not only have they consented to such an exam, they are paid to be subjected to it! The idea that medical students have to examine an anesthetized woman to learn how to do a pelvic exam is totally bogus. These teaching institutions can cough up some money and pay people to be used for practice.


              • #52

                In reading your post I am totally shocked by what happened to you, it is unbelievable that the Dr would do this to you especially knowing all you have gone through during these past few months! I am so sorry that you are having to go through this and for all the stress and trauma that has been added to your life.

                I have a question, how exactly did you find out the pelvic exams had been done? Did the Dr. actually put in his report that multiple exams were done by students? I've read many of my op reports, sometimes it will say that a student was present but never goes into any detail or say if the students participated in any of the procedure. I have to say it really has me wondering about what really goes on while we are "under". I will definitely add the NO STUDENTS statement to all of my consents from now on.

                Thank you for having the courage to share your story with us, I know this must have been very difficult.


                • #53
                  This is my first post on these forums, I cannot help but reply to you.

                  Lori, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I am an RN on a med/surg floor, so I hope I can provide you with a few answers (I am very newly diagnosed with IC, as well).

                  First off, and I know you know this, your doc did indeed violate HIPPA laws by discussing anything with your husband. BIG no no, especially with the huge push these days regarding patient privacy.

                  While I am not familiar with military and/or teaching facilites, I know our surgical consents have a stipulation for allowing students to be involved in care. That being said, I believe the care they mean is NECESSARY care, NOT something that has nothing to do with what you are undergoing.

                  As far as the draping, there are no specifics involved, so the fact that this particular time you could not see your legs is likely coincidental. What concerns me the most is the fact that you were aware at all...this was *supposed* to be general anesthesia, no?

                  I have learned pelvic exams in my training as a Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner, and they were always on VOLUNTEER patients, whose sole purpose in undergoing the exams was to give us practice (what incredible women to volunteer, KWIM? but certainly a very individual choice! I know I couldn't do it!). They used to do our training in clinics, but again, these women volunteered and were fully aware of what was going on. What happened in your case is INEXCUSABLE. I hope that you find swift resolution on all fronts. I will keep you in my prayers; it broke my heart to read this.
                  32 years old

                  former Med/Surg RN

                  endometriosis x 13 years (with attempted/ failed complete removal in June 2008), IC diagnosed with cysto/hydrodistention April 2007, second cysto/hydro in June 2008


                  • #54
                    Thank you all so very much for your replies.

                    I learned about the pelvic exams because it was documented in my surgical report. The names of the medical students participating were also noted. They were 3rd year medical students. This particular surgical report is far more detailed than any other I have ever seen for a cystoscopy/hydrodistention. It may be because it was written up by a Resident rather than by the Physician. So there may have been more attention to detail since it's kind of a new thing for that doctor.

                    I was given spinal anesthesia in addition to IV sedation. I was kind of out of it during much of the procedure, but I did come around several times and I was very annoyed that I could not see what was going on.

                    The consent form I signed had nothing in it about students being involved in my care, or observing. Nor was I told beforehand. The only way I learned, was by reading my medical records. The doctor admitted to my husband that there was nothing in the consent form that talked about students participating, nor anything about pelvic exams. He admitted that there "probably should have been" something in the consent forms on that.

                    Thank you all so much. It is especially heartening to read that a nurse thinks what happened to me was wrong. Thank you so much for letting me know my feelings on this are correct - that something really was wrong with this situation!

                    Last edited by ICLori; 04-10-2007, 09:41 PM.


                    • #55
                      Just got an e-mail from the patient advocate. I told her previously that I would not speak to her over the phone - that all communication between us needed to be in e-mail or regular mail form.

                      She just e-mailed asking me to let her call me over the phone. I told her that whatever she needed to say to me, could be said in e-mail. I said for legal reasons I wanted a record of all the conversations that occurred regarding this.

                      Last edited by ICLori; 04-10-2007, 09:42 PM.


                      • #56
                        Oh, this is an interesting development - turns out she invited me and my husband to a meeting with her and the Chief Medical Staff. When I asked if I could bring legal representation with me to the meeting, I was told "no."

                        So my answer to her was "no." No freaking way am I going to a meeting where their sole purpose is to try to intimidate us and browbeat us into shutting up and going away. No way.

                        In fact I am really truly seriously now considering going to a lawyer. This has gotten really terribly ugly.

                        What do you guys think of this?

                        Last edited by ICLori; 04-10-2007, 08:44 AM.


                        • #57
                          In my personal opinion, you should be able to bring representation if you darn well choose to. I agree with your "no." Ask if you can record the conversation if you have no lawyer there, and see what they say about that.
                          32 years old

                          former Med/Surg RN

                          endometriosis x 13 years (with attempted/ failed complete removal in June 2008), IC diagnosed with cysto/hydrodistention April 2007, second cysto/hydro in June 2008


                          • #58
                            Well, she already is trying to get me to talk over the phone - doesn't want to communicate in writing any more. So that tells me she wants to yell at me, try to intimidate me into backing down and shutting up. And in a previous conversation about another issue I had raised with the hospital, she DID yell at me. No empathy whatsoever from this particular hospital - they don't even PRETEND that the patient advocate is for helping patients. It's all about protecting the hospital and intimidating the patients into going away.

                            I don't think I will let them play that game - nope, no way. No freaking way.

                            I am worried about some medical appointments I have this week, however. Should I go to them, or do you think they will be waiting to ambush me if I go? If they do ambush me, will they try to physically prevent me from leaving, etc.? How far do you think they will go?

                            I must sound really paranoid, but I know they are not playing fair at this point...

                            Last edited by ICLori; 04-10-2007, 09:43 PM.


                            • #59
                              I hope I didn't upset you Lori, I was just trying to make you smile through all of this pain...I am sorry.

                              I wouldn't worry about your appts this week, honestly. How could they not prevent you from leaving? They have no basis to do so, AND it would make more trouble for them. Their offices are public, not a lot that they can do. I am sure they are pushing so hard because they are scared, but I would be surprised if they actually tried intimidation. I think they are merely desperate to explain themselves and clear the air. However, you are not wrong, so their efforts are fruitless. They may want to try to "settle" something with you avoiding a legal route, which actually means they would be extra nice and not mean about it, know what I mean?
                              32 years old

                              former Med/Surg RN

                              endometriosis x 13 years (with attempted/ failed complete removal in June 2008), IC diagnosed with cysto/hydrodistention April 2007, second cysto/hydro in June 2008


                              • #60
                                Thank you so much, Breezy. I'm still a little scared to go to my appointments, and I'm NOT going to go to any meetings without legal counsel. In fact I want everything in writing - no face-to-face meetings at all.

                                Let me give you a little background on my previous interaction with military hospitals.

                                When I was an Army Officer, one of my soldiers came to me one day and asked, "Ma'am, when you had your wisdom teeth out, did the dentist give YOU a breast exam?" She was very troubled by what had been done to her as it had not been a standard breast exam. She felt it was abusive. I took my soldier to CID.

                                After a brief investigation, I was told to "drop" the matter. I did not. I persisted, and went to the press finally after exhausting all official channels (including DACOWITZ and the DA IG.) The dentist involved and all in the chain of command were removed from the Army shortly after I went to the press.

                                But during this whole time, at one point my husband became involved. He could not believe the dentists had done anything wrong by giving breast exams to various young women by coercion, and wanted to hear for himself.

                                The DENTAC Commander and OIC of the clinic as well as the dentist doing breast exams met with him.

                                The meeting was an hour-long screaming sessions. Two 0-6's screaming at my (then) 0-2 husband. Telling him his wife was a lesbian man-hater. Telling him I obviously hated sex. Telling him he needed to get control of me and make me shut up about this issue or his career (and mine) would be over. Etc. Etc. Threatening us with a lawsuit. On and on.

                                So that is my previous experience with meetings set up by hospitals.

                                I'm a little bit distrustful of the way military hospitals handle things, because of my past experiences.

                                I know I must seem unreasonable and very untrusting, but if you had the experiences I have had, you'd understand.