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Found out I had pelvic exams done without my consent

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  • #61
    Good for you Lori!

    FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!! Don't let them intimidate you! You are so smart. Writting only. If they try to trap you go to the press again! Keep that surgical record under lock and key! You know what to do! Be strong!

    Erika
    IC diagnosed officially via cysto/urodynamics 1/26/07

    Grade II Endometriosis diagnosed via lap 12/11/07

    "Fall down seven times, Stand up eight."

    "Life is a tragedy for those who feel and a comedy for those who think."

    Current Treatments:
    Interstim Since 5/25/07!
    Birth Control

    Comment


    • #62
      I have the same general mistrust of military docs and hospitals (my BF is military) even though I have had no personal experience with them. I have heard stories as well, although NOT to this degree....I am in total shock (I do believe them, though!). I am very familiar with the "teaching ground" atmosphere and that alone is unsettling to me. Please don't think I doubt anything you say in the least, I believe you 100% and totally sympathize, if not empathize, where you are coming from.

      I probably would not have initially thought of the "nothing not in writing" idea, which is bloody brilliant. Good thinking, girl. That is THE BEST way to handle it. I will be following to find out what becomes of all of this. Those docs need a lesson, and you are the one to teach it to them!
      32 years old

      former Med/Surg RN

      endometriosis x 13 years (with attempted/ failed complete removal in June 2008), IC diagnosed with cysto/hydrodistention April 2007, second cysto/hydro in June 2008

      Comment


      • #63
        Lori...Are these appointments you have necessary? Is there anyway you can skip them?

        If you do make these appointments, is there anyone who can go with you? Someone they cannot intimidate with rank issues. (You know what I mean.) You need to have a witness you can trust any time you make any kind of personal contact with this hospital. Make sure that the person who goes with you stays with you. They must be with you at all times. Do not go into an exam room or anywhere else alone. Tell them to take paper and pen so they can write down what is said to you and/or to them. If the hospital refuses your witness from going into the exam room, make sure they state the reasons on paper with a signature right then and there and then leave. Do not go anywhere alone.

        I probably sound paranoid here, but I do have an understanding about military rank issues. Big eats little.

        Sharon

        Shopping??? Did someone mention shopping? I'll get my hat... ;-)

        Where I can be found most days.



        Link to the ICN Patient Handbook:
        http://www.ic-network.com/handbook/

        Link to the IC Diet:
        http://www.ic-network.com/diet/


        IC Volunteers are not medical authorities nor do we offer medical advice. In all cases, we strongly encourage you to discuss your medical treatment with your personal medical care provider. Only they can, and should, give medical recommendations to you.

        Comment


        • #64
          Hmmm...well, unfortunately, these appointments are pretty important. I've been recently diagnosed as hypothyroid so I need thyroid meds. So I really can't skip that appointment tomorrow, even though I'm honestly very frightened of what will happen to me when I go. I'm kind of expecting an ambush, and possibly even being beaten/physically restrained.

          The other appointment is to transfer my urological care to another doctor. So that one is important, too. I need more Cyclosporine-A.

          It would cost nearly a fortune to go to outside providers for these things, and would take awhile to get appointments, as well.

          Hmmm...I don't have anyone to go with me. I'm not too terribly worried as long as they don't physically try to lock me in a room or restrain me. If they get between me and the door - I don't know. I guess I could scream or something.

          Certainly if they try to do something really underhanded like that, I will go to the press and a lawyer. There will be no playing nice if they are brutal in their treatment of me.

          Blessings,
          Lori
          Last edited by ICLori; 04-10-2007, 09:44 PM.

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          • #65
            Oh my gosh Lori!

            I hope they won't put their hands on you! I don't think they will. Be prepared to go over their heads to the press or whatever. I would call Barbara Walters or Jay Leno!!!

            Erika
            IC diagnosed officially via cysto/urodynamics 1/26/07

            Grade II Endometriosis diagnosed via lap 12/11/07

            "Fall down seven times, Stand up eight."

            "Life is a tragedy for those who feel and a comedy for those who think."

            Current Treatments:
            Interstim Since 5/25/07!
            Birth Control

            Comment


            • #66
              I know I must sound really crazy to everyone here, but honestly I've had some bad experiences before and I've heard some stories that would curl your toes.

              I am soooo looking forward to getting all my healthcare provided by civilian doctors some day.

              I've had a few civilian docs, and they have been GREAT. I could not believe the difference in treatment! It's really amazing to me.

              Blessings,
              Lori
              Last edited by ICLori; 04-10-2007, 09:44 PM.

              Comment


              • #67
                Yes, I guess these two appointments are very important. I am sorry there isn't anyone who can go with you. If you have one, do take your cell phone with you and make sure it is freshly charged.

                If you sound crazy then I guess I do, too. I don't trust anyone who is feeling like they have been pinned down and pushed into a corner.

                What time are these appointments for and in what time zone so I can be praying for you?
                Sharon

                Shopping??? Did someone mention shopping? I'll get my hat... ;-)

                Where I can be found most days.



                Link to the ICN Patient Handbook:
                http://www.ic-network.com/handbook/

                Link to the IC Diet:
                http://www.ic-network.com/diet/


                IC Volunteers are not medical authorities nor do we offer medical advice. In all cases, we strongly encourage you to discuss your medical treatment with your personal medical care provider. Only they can, and should, give medical recommendations to you.

                Comment


                • #68
                  wow!

                  That is so horrifying! Now that you mention it, during my cysto/hydro, there were a whole bunch of med student's observing! I was just like, um, hokay, this is akward, please knock me out now. Hearing your story just made me wonder what they did while I was out! I am so sorry this has happened to you, and I really wish you all the peace of mind you can find on this one. It does not seem at all legal to me, but I do remember filling out lotsa lotsa papers right before the surgery. I didn't even read them, cuz I was already kind of out of it. Somehow, I can almost bet, they added such a disclaimer in there, thereby, getting your signature to approve it. I hope this isn't the case, though, and I wish you all the best. And then some!! Feel better soon.
                  p.s. Please don't stress yourself out more than you need to. I know that when you feel violated its hard to rule anything out. If those pelvic exams, constitute rape to you, then yes you should have gotten a rape kit. Medical teaching aside, Please don't forget how many certified people are in the room, whom would never tolerate such blatent disregard for human rights.(Now this is of course presuming you were in a HOSPITAL not someone's personal OFFICE).
                  Love is a fruit in season at all times, within reach of every hand. ~ The Blessed Mother Teresa

                  Status: Diagnosed October 2006 via cystoscopy with hydrodistention. Max anesthetized bladder capacity only 250 cc's. Mast cells and pinpoint bleeding found.

                  Remission for me means less pain for more days than not. Frequency is inevitable with a bladder this tiny! That is ok though. The difference between when I was diagnosed and now, is that I have embraced that fact. Me and the loo, we are one.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Lori,
                    Not to add to your stress level or anything, but I would be careful of what you write here on these boards if you are contemplating legal action. It is not hard to find these boards and you never know if your doctors, nurses, etc haven't signed on here to see what your intentions are.
                    hugs,
                    Janie

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Lori,

                      I am here in the area and available to help in whatever way I can. I have a PT appointment tomorrow, but would be glad to reschedule it (it's no big deal) if you need me. We're retired......they can't do anything to us.

                      I think you are very wise to insist all communications be in writing so everything can be documented. I feel certain a face-to-face meeting would serve only to try to intimidate you and turn the blame on you. As I mentioned in my PMs, you are dealing with and have supporting physical evidence of MULTIPLE possible CRIMINAL acts here that go beyond this physical assault evidence. I do hope you will go to JAHCO (accompanied by supportive people) to report this. Start with the appropriate legal channels. You can go outside to the media afterwards, if necessary. I was also born and raised in this area and would be glad to help you identify appropriate legal representation experienced in dealing with the military.

                      My thoughts and prayers are with you and I am here to support you in any way I can.

                      Last edited by Annie2; 04-10-2007, 08:03 AM.
                      Annie

                      IC
                      Ulcerative Colitis and IBS
                      Pelvic Floor Dysfunction

                      _________________________________________________________
                      Retirement is great! Work is highly overrated!!!
                      ---My dear hubby

                      ________________________________________________________
                      Never go to a doctor whose office plants are dead.
                      ---Unknown

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Sharon and Annie and Jane and Kristi, thank you guys so very much!

                        Sharon, I'll be going tomorrow at 0915 to my endocrinologist appointment (Eastern Standard Time) I would be so grateful for a prayer!

                        Kristi, hopefully the medical students only observed, but I understand completely about you feeling uncomfortable. Did they tell you it was okay to not consent to them being there?

                        In my case, the doctor looked at the consent form I signed already and admitted to my husband it did not say anything covering med students observing or pelvic exams. So I definitely didn't sign anything saying they could do this.

                        In cases of medical battery, all that has to be proven is that you were touched without your consent. Don't have to prove harm was done, don't have to prove they meant for harm to be done - just have to prove that they touched you in a way you did not specifically consent to. I absolutely 100% have a legal case, based on my records. Says right in my surgical report about the pelvic exam. Their own hospital records hang them, is what it boils down to. And they know it. I did not consent to a pelvic exam, so I was touched in a way that I did not consent to.

                        I'm not too worried about what I write. As long as I don't name any specific names, I can't be sued for anything I write here. And as far as strategy - I don't need any. It's an open-and-shut case. I just hand my paperwork over to the lawyer and he wins the case by letting the judge read the surgical report. It's really that simple. Not that I'm planning on going to a lawyer. I'm still hoping that changes can be made in-house.

                        Thank you so much, Annie. I hope it won't come to it, but I will be so grateful for your help in locating a good lawyer if there is no other way of resolving this. I appreciate your offer so much.

                        I hope PT goes well tomorrow for you and won't leave you too sore or anything! I hope you will get better and better each time from it.

                        Blessings,
                        Lori
                        Last edited by ICLori; 04-10-2007, 09:46 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          I had a pelvic exam done as well during my cysto/hydro/biopsy, as stated on my surgical report. It says exactly "A full examination under anesthesia was performed including a bimanual examination. No masses in the adnexa were appreciated. There were no cervical lesions and no vaginal vault lesions"
                          Personally, I have no problem with having this done, I just feel it was part of the whole examination to determine if I had interstitial cystitis or not. It does not bother me, because it was done to help rule out any other causes of my symptoms. I believe it was just part of the whole cysto/hydro/biopsy examination.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by ICLori View Post
                            I just got a copy of my surgical report, and read it. Turns out during the last hydrodistention/cystoscopy I had a pelvic exam was done on me while I was knocked out.

                            I was not told ahead of time that this would happen (nor told after the fact - I only learned by reading the surgical report) and I was not given a chance to give informed consent.

                            It's common for teaching hospitals to allow med students to practice pelvic exams on female patients - as soon as a woman is asleep, teaching hospitals bring in hordes of young medical students (usually male) to perform pelvic exams. Sometimes up to six or seven at a time. In my case, only two medical students were in the OR observing/participating, but that's still two more than I ever consented to. And I never consented to, nor was told about, the pelvic exam(s). There's no problem if the patient is told ahead of time, or if consent is granted - but it's assault if the patient is not told and given a choice.

                            I really feel violated.

                            I did not need a pelvic exam at all - it was only for training purposes. They should have ASKED me for my consent.

                            I really feel my trust was violated.

                            I'm really upset about this.

                            Ladies, make sure you know what your doctor or other people, are going to do to you while you are knocked out. Don't just assume they are not going to violate your trust.

                            I'm honestly considering filing charges or reporting my doctor to someone or something. I don't really know what to do, but it seems so wrong to me.

                            Blessings,
                            Lori
                            P.S. Turns out I'm hypothyroid, I go see an endocrinologist on Wednesday. I have not been feeling well lately, either physically or emotionally. So I haven't been around.
                            I cant believe it, I dont know where you had this done, but I live in Canada, and before I even have a cystoscopy, I have to give my concent. If not, they would have a law suite against them. I dont care if it is medical students or not, actually that's all the more reason. Nobody does a pelvic exam on me except my Dr. with my concent.

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                            • #74
                              Well, I think a full pelvic exam (especially with an IC patient who might hurt with an in office pelvic exam) is necessary while under general anesthesia. I think what really shocked the original poster was that several (not just one, but several) med students were given "a shot" at her while unaware and without her permission. I would be livid if that was me, but I would not care if the doctor did it or had one student (with my permission pre-op). I would not let more than one or two students examine me, even under general.
                              [SIZE="1"][B]Be well, Alyssa :hi:[/B]

                              [

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                              • #75
                                The doctor in question had already given me several in-office pelvic exams within one year prior to the cystoscopy/hydrodistention. It was in my records that everything down there was within normal limits, no problems.

                                This pelvic exam was NOT done for my benefit. It was done for training purposes or just for the heck of it.

                                It was done without my consent. I was not told ahead of time it would be done. I was violated. My right to choose was taken away from me.

                                I still consider such actions to be sexual assault. And it does legally meet the definition of medical battery. People have sued and won over things like this.
                                Last edited by ICLori; 04-10-2007, 09:47 PM.

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