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Possible cause of IC

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  • #16
    Interesting thoughts.....

    Im very interested Now.

    Tammy G- I have never heard of "estrogen dominance." Could you explain a bit??

    I was diagnosed with IC after going on birth control and it was also the last time I was very sexually active....(well, the last time I was sexually active at all, but we were a little nutty, it was new love <img src="graemlins/lmao.gif" border="0" alt="[lmao]" /> ) I have always wondered the effect the birth control had...Im convinced there was some. I thought more along the lines of a synthesized drug like any other....it has side effects, and if you read the small print in the PDR surrounding most birth control pills..they say "Chronic Cystitis" among a list of like 100 other possible side effects.

    Progesterone is created from cholesterol during the second half of the menstrual cycle, after ovulation. The action of progesterone is to prepare the endometrium lining for implantation and pregnancy. It increases the amount of endometrial cells in the uterus, increases the mucosal lining of fallopian tubes, and mostly acts on the breasts causing them to become slightly larger, glands to proliferate and prepare for milk. If the egg is not fertilized, estrogen and progesterone suddenly rapidly decrease, and eventualy menstruation occurs. If not, progesterone maintains the yolk sac and is then secreted by the placenta itself, especially after the fourth month gestation.

    I always get VERY sore breasts and thats becase of progesterone...and I wonder if I have lotsa progesterone because I have high cholesterol.....however I wonder about the allergy idea for many reasons. One being that progesterone itself is degredaded to other steriod hormones (in the liver) that have no progesteronic effect within minutes of it being secreted.

    HOWEVER, 10% of progesterone secreted is excreted unused in URINE in the form of pregnanediol- not straight progesterone, but a form of it.

    So, perhaps if there is an allergy to it, it bothers the bladder at that time when it is being secreted. But that doesnt explain other flares because there are no receptors on the bladder that would bind with progesterone.

    AND, if it were an allergy, It would be autoimmune that we would create antigens to our own progesterone. However then I imagine that although my bladder gets slightly worse during PMS, that my uterus and fallopian tubes would have something to say....meaning that we would all have more fertility problems...I dont know, this is really intersting...but I always assumed my worse IC with PMS was my big filled uterus pushing on my bladder...being that my uterus and all that other stuff checked out fine and that my period still comes, like clockwork without the pill- every 30 days. And while men have some estrogens, they have no progesterone. And progesterone is not created in (normal)female children until puberty.

    Hmm. I dont know what to say. SOOOO interesting, like anything, more research needs to be done. Id like to see the web page. I would be a little leary about taking progesterone though...its a steriod and a vile one at that [img]mad.gif[/img] think the new morning after pill (PlanB) that makes you sick- YUCK!
    Rachel
    @[email protected]
    "Well the Secret O'Life is enjoying the passage of time." ~James Taylor

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    • #17
      I totally agree with Gabby. I went through the same thing with prgesterone shots during infertility treatments. My IC was in remission at the time and I went through my whole pregnancy without a hitch.
      I did test postive recently for mycoplasma and chlamydia for which I'm on antibiotic treatment. So is my husband which may prove to be the reason I am infertile. I haven't used birth control for 8 years. Those infections cause urogenital problems as well as others.
      Hopefully if I get well I will have some good news for everyone.
      Well wishes and good luck to everyone with this progesterone discovery!!!
      Jackie

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      • #18
        I spoke to my Physiology professor who works in a Pediatric Intensive Care unit at chop. Her thoughts on the progesterone was that it is possible because estrogen and progesterone play a part in autoimmunity that they arent aware of yet...She also mentioned that lots of research is being done- NOT specific to IC- but on autoimmunity. Suppressor T cells are supposed to supress immune function and prevent eratic immune responses to self tissue- aka autoimmunity. I think they should just synthetically make Supressor T cells and shoot me up with them. My professor said they are workng on it. As far as Jill's mast cell idea- the pain doesnt come from mast cells, but possibly the innflammation itself that they cause. Here are her thoughts::

        Im sorry this diease makes you feel so awful.
        It is however, very interesting.
        I am not sure that there is a direct connection between mast cells / histamine
        and pain... but pain, as well as the immune response, are such a complex issues
        that there is always a possibility it's related... it's more likely that the
        edema that is created by histamine release from mast cells results in pressure
        on nerves which causes the pain etc. etc.... That's just a thought. Yes...
        people are investigating suppresser T-cell function and autoimmune diseases...
        it's a hot topic. Since cystitis is general inflammation, it makes sense that
        what ever the process is causing the inflammation will also effect other organ
        systems such as muscle, joints, the GI tract... i.e. causing IBD and
        "fibromyalgia"... Fibromyalgia isn't well understood so it's sort of become the
        diagnoses for anyone with chronic discomfort and fatigue. In general, any
        immune related disease can flare due to stress... might have to do with cortisol
        secretion / function as part of the sympathetic response... but it's not well
        understood. In cases of fibromyalgia and other poorly understood pain and
        fatigue syndromes, stress reduction, treatment for the depression people
        experience when they are in pain all of the time and lots of physical therapy
        has shown to relieve symptoms better than any medication... including
        corticosteroids. Unfortunately I don't know much about IC !!! I have never
        heard of the progesterone allergy theory, but there is definitely a link between
        estrogen / progesterone and autoimmune diseases... that's why so many of these
        problems start in women during puberty... Hope this info is helpful... and
        hang in there!!!! Sometimes it takes years, but most folks can get a handle on
        works to relieve their symptoms and to figure out what their trigger's are and
        avoid them. If you ever need a good rheumatologist... there is an excellent
        practice at HUP...
        Tara

        FYI..Cortisol is a hormone secreted from your adrenal glands which sit atop your kidneys that acts like a steriod....like prednisone if you've ever taken it.

        Thought you all might like to hear her thoughts, I always do.
        Rachel
        @[email protected]
        "Well the Secret O'Life is enjoying the passage of time." ~James Taylor

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        • #19
          Rachel,

          From what I have been told, Estrogen dominence is having too much estrogen and not enough progesterone. This is supposedly caused by the environment: Synthetic estrogens that are fed to beef, chicken, etc...Synthetic estrogens in the pesticides, HRT, bcp, sythetic hormones in medications, etc... Some say that is why we have more females in the population. I think people do develop hormone allergies to both the synthetic hormones as well as their own natural hormones or natural hormones available such as natural progesterone cream. My IC symptoms began when I started taking birth control pills that contained both synthetic estrogen & progesterone. I definitely feel IC is hormone, autoimmune and allery related.

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          • #20
            Thanks Tammy G.

            The first thing I did that helped my IC was make a switch to natural, and when I can organic foods(and I gave up meat because of hormones...which organic doesnt have). Aside from all the hormone issues...BIG difference!!! And there is documented evidence that this is why girls are hitting menarche earlier and earlier. Because of our innidation with hormones.

            I am begining study on Botanical Medicine and Herbology and one of the things I focus on is integrative medicine, meaning: there is a time and place for western medicine- Pain control, a heart attack, a car accident- and a positive strep culture. But things such as sore throats that are usually viral can have other, natural treatments. I came across some startling information today in my studies. I know how hormones are metabolized and exreted; but i never stopped to think of where it goes. So in our pee we have 20% of at times estrogen, progesterone, etc. And that changes if you take hormones as well. So you pee, you flush, and you think the water gets clean? think again. Hormones have an affinity for water. They contaminate the soil that feeds our animals and our plants. All from our pee...imagine what other drug remnants in our urine do!!!

            AN example:: In Great Britian, the number one prescribed medication is Premarin for HRT. Conjugated Equine (horse!!) estrogens. A few fish farms in Great Britian two years ago began to actually document MALE fish becoming FEMALE&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;all traced back to the premarin metabolites in the water. SCARY?!?! [img]redface.gif[/img] Scarier is the four legged frogs...wonder what drug that was?!?!

            Just thought Id share my work, a point to ponder next time you take a pill and pee (which: I think to myself, for us, is MUCH more than average!! <img src="graemlins/lmao.gif" border="0" alt="[lmao]" /> )
            Rachel
            @[email protected]
            "Well the Secret O'Life is enjoying the passage of time." ~James Taylor

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            • #21
              Rachel,

              I agree with you about things. I use very small doses of subcutaneous heparin injections to control my IC. In 1994, I was put on [.5cc (of 10,000 units strength) every 12 hours] for one year. This healed and rebuilt my GAG layer. Since then I only need to use this dosage about every 3 months for just 2 weeks. I feel this is about the closest I can get to a homeopathic therapy since heparin is a natural substance. My doctor is currently consulting with Dr. Roby in Texas to see about testing me for antibodies for hormone allergies. I'll find out something in Jan. when I go in for my next appt.

              Tammy

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              • #22
                Rachel,

                Feel free to email me directly for discussion if you like ([email protected]). Sometimes I don't check the ICN site for awhile if I'm busy. Here are some interesting sites:

                www.onlineallergycenter.com
                www.johnleemd.com
                www.thyroid-info.com/
                www.drsiegal.com/index2html
                www.thyroid.about.com

                Dr.Roby says progesterone is bad for IC. Dr. John Lee says a lot of women are estrogen dominent. These 2 doctors might contradict each other. The last 3 are about thyroid issues and contain info. about natural thyroid VS synthetic. I'm currently on Armour.

                Tammy

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