ultracet?

[Dean76]

I am currently taking Tylenol 3 for pain. Someone here recently told me T3 has caffine in it so I am going to ask my doc to switch me to T4.
Tylenol 3 seems to not work well for me anymore. Sometime it knocks the pain out and sometimes it doesnt.
Recently a family member gave me an ultracet to try because I didnt have my tylenol with me over the holidays. It worked so much better. Do you think I am getting an immunity to the tylenol? Also are their any long-tern effects of using pain killer for pain management. Pain killers are the only drug I have found to ease pain and make me feel normal. They actually give me a boost and help me work without feeling drained like I usually feel all day. Hope this post makes sense. Like most of you I dont feel good today and am foogy headed from the Amytriptylin I took last night. I would appreciate anyones advice.

[auntiedeb]

first of all you should never take anyone elses drugs , you may have had a reaction to it and it is against the fedral law for that person to dispense of it. I hope and pray that you will feel better soon. gentle hugs.

[ICNDonna]

Debbie is definitely right about sharing prescription medications --- it is never a good idea.

I do think you should talk with your doctor about a change in pain medications.

Sending an encouraging hug,
Donna

[Pain_Man]

Tylenol 2, 3, 4s are nothing more than a little codeine. Codeine is worthless as a pain killer. The only use it has is as a cough syrup or for severe diarrhea.

The Tylenol is a very serious danger to your liver. NEVER take more than 4 grams (that's 8 500mg pills/day) and don't take that daily for more than a couple of months.

I'm not a doctor and this isn't medical adive. I'm just laying the facts about Acetaminophen on the table for you. The stuff is like hydrochloric acid for the liver. It literally destroys liver cells.

The only way to treat an overdose is a drug called acetylcysteine--original developed for cystic fibrosis but someone discovered that it actually reversed Tylenol poisoning if given within 36 hours. All of those little "attention" suicide attempt so favored by teen girls can lead to a liver transplant.

So you are taking a medicine that is:

A. worthless as a painkiller in my experience and the experience of every one else I know.

B. Morpheine alone is 600% stronger.

C. it's combined with a drug whose threat of toxicity is very, very real. I quit taking Percpcet 10/650s for that very reason and switched to Oxycodone IR (immediate release) which contains no Tylenol or Aspirin.

Ask your doctor to switch you to Oxy IRs, or morpheine or Dilaudid, something with NO Tylenol in it.

If you are a long term opiate patient you could lose your liver if you don't eliminate Tylenol consumption on a daily basis.

And don't think Ibuprofen is "safe" as a substitute. It and naprosen ("Aleve") can both cause severe nephritic (kidney) damage when taken for too long at two high a dose. Never more than what the bottle directs unless so instructed on your doctors.

Besides, you DESERVE real pain killers, not the BS candy they fob off on you when they think you're a "drug seeker." I had to deal with that label for eight years before diagnosis. I've had IC since 91-92. And I've been thru nearly ever kind of non-female issue regarding this disease that I can think of...from the fatigue to the irritable bowel syndrome to the suicidal depressions and idiations.

Like we IC patients like to say, "At least cancer kills you."

IC won't, but it will make you long for death at times--and then feel horrible guilty about even wanting to abandon my 4 year old daughter and incredible wife.

As the lady once said, "Once you have a kid, suicide is not an option."

Sometimes, neither is living with IC. So we learn much about suffering. Far more than I ever wanted to know.

Take care and good luck.

[Melis 26]

Oh my god. You sound like me. I know what you mean about the boost at work. Well, that may actually be dangerous because you may be developing an addiction, like I sometimes feel I could. I don't know any other dangers besides developing an addiction- which is bad enough. But because the doses are so low it may be less likely to develop one and it's less likely there are other long term side effects. I'm no dr. though. So, that's just my opinion and stuff I've heard.

I do know this though. You def. develop a resistance to drugs like that. I don't know if it's necessarily an immunity to the effectiveness of the pain killer aspect. I do know it's that you generally need more and more and more to get that high feeling because thats the way opiods work. Codeine (in Tylenol 3) is from an opiod. Simply put- it pretty much is a different form of heroin. The only way to obtain the "high" feeling once you've lost it on a low dose (which you should'nt be worrying about getting! Not that you are.) is to stop, wait until you withdrawl and all the drugs are out of your system and then the resistance is back down to low again. So, you could be developing a resistance in the pain department, but I'm not sure if it goes hand in hand with the drug's "high" effect. If it does, then yes. Am I making any sense? I've taken classes on this before so that's how I know but I may def. be explaining wrong or getting my facts a little mixed up.

So, yes, pain killers can be dangerous if you develope addiction and start upping your doses on your own. Eventually that can be very dangerous, but if take as prescribed you should safe. Good luck and I hope I make sense. Hang in there. kissing

Melissa

[Melis 26]

I did want to say that I once was prescribed tylenol 3 for something and it def. worked for me. I'm not saying it works for everything and everyone. I can't even remember what I had it for. I think it was for a surgery on my wrist. I remember it worked. It didn't take the pain completly away but even percoset and vicodin don't do that for me, gererally speaking. So, it may be that it isn't effective for severe pain. I had it for moderate pain. That may be why you should get somthing else. If you are having exteme pain it may be time to try something stronger. And yes (as I already said) I think you can develop an immunity to pain killers. Lots of other people seem to. They also say they develop immunities to almost everything (narcotics or not) they've tried. I always get immune to perydium if I keep taking it. Well, I'm done. Hang in there. Keep posting.

Melissa

[Pain_Man]

Tylenol w/codeine, Perocet, Vicodin, none of these was ever intended for long term use. The Tylenol is there to keep people from shooting up, I am convinced, because there's basically no synergy (at least for me and everyone I know who's ever taken them).

If you are in need of serious pain treatment (I almost wrote "tx" forgetting not everyone used to be a pharmacy tech!), then you need a time release, whether its MS Contin (Morphine time-release, but due to SEVERE constipation it can be unsuitable for many people) or Oxycontin (DO NOT LET THE NEWS STORIES SCARE YOU!) or the Duragesic patch.

You will also need breakthru medication. I need it daily so tylenol combinations are out for me. I've taken oxycodone, Dilaudid, levorphanol (essentially a long acting dilaudid) and the Durageic patch. The last one is a God-send because I no longer have to worry: "When did I take the last XXXX? Was it 2:00 or 3:00? When's the next one?" Plus the constipation can be pretty bad with ANY oral narcotic. I've little trouble in that regard with the patch.

DEMAND (politely) what you need. If the doctor won't go for it, find one who will. There's tremendous competition now amongst Pain Specialists (most are anesthisiologists [sp] or nuerologists) that there are lots of them around in the urban areas. If you have to drive past the Pyramids to get to your town you may have a problem.

Don't suffer silently. The narcotics are there for a reason and there's been a revolution in the last ten years or so in Pain Management by doctors. One sign is the creation of pain management centers.

Finally, NO narcotic can completely relieve pain of IC. What you WILL get is taking it down to a dull roar. If I didn't have them, I'd be bedridden or probably a suicide by now.

"Immunity" Melis mentions this. It isn't immunity. It's tolerance. Everyone has their own level of tolerance to narcotics which can only be found over time. And yes, the longer you take them, the more tolerant you'll be come. That's a fact.

[Pain_Man]

As for Melis comments about codeine and heroin (a freak-out word in our culture for sure; it's actually legal in most of Europe; the Brits call it "diamorphine").

ALL narcotics do the same thing: they bond with pain receptors in the brain and brain stem. They all bond to the same receptors in the same way. What varies are some of the side effects and the strength of the drug (the Fentanyl in my Durageic patch, for instance, is 3000 times stronger than heroin).

There are "synthetic heroins" that are legal. Dilaudid and Levorphanol are two. Codeine and propoxyphene are little better than aspirin.

You may have to try 1/2 a dozen, but you'll find the painkiller for you. A sympathetic doctor will help.

One suggestion: if, for example, a doctor writes you a script for drug Y on the 1st of the month and by the third, it ain't working at all. Go back to the doctor WITH your previous prescription bottle and offer to give him/her the pills if he feels that you shouldn't have them.

Most of them don't care and won't take them from you. But it will show that you are NOT an addict or a "diverter" (Legal talk for people who sell/trade them illegally).

Also, if your painkillers are ever lost are stolen, IMMEDIATELY get a police report and show it to your doc. Since it's a crime in every state to file a false one, it will show that you are serious.

Finally, when going to a new pain doc, ALWAYS bring ALL your Controlled Substance prescriptions with you, whether empty or not. It will show the doctor that you have a history with the drug.

It's worked for me.

Peace and the End of Pain to you All.


Down with IC! (Hey, NIH, how 'bout a "War on IC"???)

[dminton]

To whoever is worried about pain meds giving them a "boost" to go to work; I say, who cares? You are lucky to be going to work and probably feel a boost because your pain isn't screaming at you! Way to go! D.

[MissMary]

I want to know what to do about my pain meds. I have not been able to leave home for 2 months because I am just too weak from the pain. My doctor gave me a RX for darvocet and I take 3 a day and he also said I could combine it with advil, which I take about 8 a day. I know there are more powerful meds out there but he has not offered them to me. I have been under his care for about 3 years. He diagnosed me with ic and he is also one of the few doctors listed on the ic site that is in my area. I really like and trust him but I don't understand why he isn't giving me something stronger. frown

[dminton]

Mary -

I would ask him for a referral to a pain specialist. There is no reason for you to suffer so much. Another idea is to check with other doctors you may have, like a general family doctor. Mine is much more sympathetic to me than my urologist, and in fact prescribes my Vicodin. Another thing - is this doctor aware, really aware, of how much pain you have?

I really am sorry you are suffering so much and it seems so unnecessary. IC is a painful disease for many and needs to be treated. To not treat pain is wrong.

Good luck to you!

Diana.

[Pain_Man]

Miss Mary,

I know exactly what you're going thru! It took me from 1991--when symptoms started becoming too bad to ignore even with my chemical lifestyle back then (my service in the Psychic Wars never involved narcotics). I was also forced to us mary jane during my years of no health insurance. Even without out, since it's legal in my state for med purposes, I still use it to help control my pain.

The above advice applies on to people living in state's with medical marijuana laws! I am NOT encouraging anyone to break any law whatsoever! Officially my position is that everyone should obey every law no matter how insane, stupid or how much suffering it causes you. wink

Be as blunt as you need to be. Let's face it, some doctors are idiots; how they got thru med school and their residencies...let's just say business isn't the only place nepotism and cronyism flourish. Shocking, I know. Some of these nitwits shouldn't be practicing medicine at all. My first "cystoscopy" did NOT involve hydrodistention and the idiot uro told me I didn't have IC! How can you tell if you do the wrong test!

The uro who diagnosed me--one of the leading clinicians in IC in the nation--was simply aghast when I told him this. Rarely do you see an unguarded reaction from a doc, but I saw when I told him that!

I actually had a "pain specialist" threaten to write a phony letter to get my Social Security claim denied. When I threatened to file complaints with our state medical board and the two professional orgs he belongs to (that certify him as a "pain specialist") and he's left me alone ever since.

It sounds to me like you should look for another doctor. Talk to some of the other patients at your next appointment about other doctors in your town. They may be able to recommend another doctor who will mesh better with you.

Call your local medical board/society (whatever it's called in your state) and ask them for the names of all the docs who identify themselves as pain specialists.

If you find one whom you feel is a fit (and, of course who is on your insurance plan) then ask your uro or GP for a referral and go from there.

When you've gotten the names of some other pain specialists, I would call their offices and talk to their nurses.

Ask questions such as

"Does s/he treat IC patients?" If the response is, "Hunh?" that's a bad sign.

Another major, critical, super, mega important question is: "Will I be able to see him in the middle of the month if I need to?" If you're told know--and this is based on my real life experience--find another doc. If you can only get access to him once a month, he's little more than a pill pusher--in my opinion--looking to make as much money as fast as he can. In other words, this kind of doc will write whatever prescription you want in order to get you out of there as fast as possible so he can get to "higher value" patients.

Ask about how compassionate he is from people who've seen him. That will tell you a lot. Ask the nurses at your other doctors' offices if they've heard of him or her and what's their rep?

There's more ways than this to do to find the doc you need.

Run web searches on your local paper to see if the guy's had any legal problems ("Doctor arrested for blahblahblah").

Also, ask your other doctors about him. I've found out interesting stuff; seems doctors are no less addicted to gossip than the rest of us.

Peace!

[marcy]

You need another doctor. I just saw a pain specialist yesterday. He gave me 7.5 (90) percocet yesterday for 3 weeks. Bless that man angel I feel like a burden has been lifted from my shoulders. My uro was giving me 30 but that wasn't enough. You really need to see someone else. This guy might be nice but he really doesn't understand IC pain. I am so glad I went to pain management. I hope you can too.
kissing
Marct