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I know have 2 cats with IC

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  • Sprockets
    replied
    My opinion that vets are more likely to dispense pain medications (appropriately) than human doctors is based on my own experience over nearly four decades in various parts of the U.S. and in England. Your mileage may vary.

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  • brwneyedgrl
    replied
    Sprockets,

    I am just repeating what my dean had said to me about the disease. I have not learned about it yet, nor looked it up myself. Plus, I am at a vet teaching hospital. We have tests available to us that are not performed in private practice.

    And vets may be more liberal in your opinion about dispensing pain meds, however, that statement is far from true. We discuss this in class a lot. It just depends on the vet. But historically vets have not prescribed pain meds for animals. There was the wide held belief that animals should feel pain b/c it prevents them from doing further damage to themselves. Ie. a dog w/ a broken leg. It was originally thought believed that the dog needed to feel pain to prevent it from walking on the broken leg. Otherwise, if given pain meds the animal would walk on the leg, and do further damage. We have had discussions about this concept in ethics classes. And some older vets still do not provide much pain relief for animals. Plus, there is the problem of determining when the animal is actually in pain and how much pain.

    And even if your vet prescribes more pain meds, they are under the same laws that doctors are. They are probably more liberal in dispensing them in your opinion b/c we don't worry about animals abusing them like humans. They cannot od on them unless their owner does it to them.

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  • Sprockets
    replied
    i've had cats who had chronic urinary problems that were not associated with UTIs, but they were all males. Two of them had to have urethrostomies, which fixed them right up. In their cases they each formed tiny stones, "or sand," of one kind or another, and these stones irritated their narrow male urethras, in one case causing a complete blockage necessitatig immediate surgery. In both cases, FUS had been the diagnosis until the stones were found.

    The issue I have with the diagnosis of IC in cats or dogs is that, in animals, stones or sand in the urinary tract can cause symptoms that might be irresponsibly diagnosed as IC. A human can say "Doc, I have sharp right flank pain," leading to workup for kidney stones, but an animal cannot. In the absence of an ultrasound to rule out stones and several UAs to rules out sand, a diagnisis of IC in pets is sloppy and will lead to further suffering.

    I agree that vets are much more reasonable about handing out pain meds, but that's only because, legally, pets are just property, and also because vets are not subjected to the same oversight in regard to dispensing that doctors are.

    Brwneyedgrl - IC is not diagnosed based on lesions in the bladder.

    P.S. I apologize if my messages sound terse today. I'm in a flare.
    Last edited by Sprockets; 12-05-2011, 01:43 AM.

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  • brwneyedgrl
    replied
    I second that... we have talked about it in veterinary school. When I was required to give a letter to our school about it and my having to sometimes miss class/take pain meds my dean even remarked about all she knows about it is the disease in cats. I can't say I have learned much about it yet, but I do know it is diagnosed based upon the same microscopic lesions in the bladder. It is a widely accepted disease among the vet field, if only MDs shared similar beliefs.

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  • kadi
    replied
    Yes, cats can have IC. There is a veterinarian, Dr. Tony Buffington, who has done research on cats with IC...

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  • brwneyedgrl
    replied
    I too have a dog w/ chronic UTIs, how ironic, huh? The difference is we know exactly where her's are coming from. She is first of all hypothyroid, which can make her susceptible. Second she has horrible seasonal allergies that manifest as a chronic vulvar dermatitis... and I am sure many can relate to her pain. It itches like crazy and breaks out in a horrible red rash. I am constantly having to put various antibiotic/steroid ointments on her vulva to try to relieve her symptoms. The problem is that dogs don't know not to scratch/lick things so she will lick at it if I don't catch it quick enough. (And yes, she has one of those dumb E-collars to wear, but she cannot live in it 24/7.) By doing so, it often becomes infected. I try to keep on it and catch it, but sometimes even if I do the bacteria from the inflamed area often ascends her urethra into her bladder. And my poor dog is just as miserable as I am when she has a UTI. For her, the best way to treat it is to control her allergies as best as possible.

    It's so sad, but I actually have her trained now to lay down, roll over and lift her back leg to reveal her vulva for medication... she knows the command "show me peepee"

    At times I would trade places w/ her b/c I honestly think she gets better vet care than I get care from my own doctors.

    Erin

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  • Cillajane
    replied
    I don't know much about cats but I have a dog with Chronic Canine cystitis. My vet told me it was the same thing as IC. For the most part she has 2 UTIs a year where as she was getting UTIs about every 5-6 weeks before her diagnosis. For the most part she is on chondrin and Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Bison and seems comfortable.
    Only God knew I had the same condition and knew I'd take care of her.

    Lucia Cassity
    Lexington, KY

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  • Sprockets
    replied
    Jen, I'm sure Puddin is still there with you. Where else would he be?

    I often feel our Nozz still here, and it's a very comforting thing. He isn't suffering now. We have his sister, and I'm sure he'd never leave her.

    It's so hard for us to deal with this, but I'm certain nothing as wonderful as a pet's spirit just disappears, aren't you? Everything in nature is recycled.

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  • jen74
    replied
    I am sorry you had to go through that sprokets. It is one of the hardest things to do. I have not gotten another dog yet and not sure if I ever will. I miss my Puddin so much still. It has been 34 weeks since he died. I still cry.The house is so lonely without him

    Jen

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  • Sprockets
    replied
    Jen, I agree with you completely. I've had to have pets put down, and it was the responsible thing to do. It is irresponsible and selfish to allow them to continue to suffer when everything possible has been done for them and they are not going to get better. We just have to out our feelings aside, suck it up and do it.

    Then we can cry for days if we need to. I had to be hauled out of the vet's office shrieking after the last one, but my feelings didn't matter until after I did my duty. It's been over a year and we both still miss him dreadfully, but it was my job to make sure he didn't suffer.

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  • Sprockets
    replied
    Waterflow, I really wonder if you have the right diagnosis. I have had cats all my life and I never heard of cats having IC. I have heard of kidney stones, though, and what you describe sounds like stones. It's one of the worst tyoes of pain in the world.

    I assume you've had x-rays and ultrasounds done on them. What did those show? Not all stones show up on x-ray, which is why CT is the diagnostic standard.

    There are special foods formulated just for cats with kidney issues. Your vet should have those or know where to get them.

    If you're dealing with this kind of issue, please don't wait when a cat has an attack. Isn't there an all-night emergency vet in your area? This kind of pain really isn't something you'd wish on your worst enemy.
    Last edited by Sprockets; 12-04-2011, 01:05 PM.

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  • waterflow
    replied
    The problem for me really is the pet didn't have the say in it. We really don't know what they think or want. Just like some people would want the choice for that and some would rather live right up to the very end. There just is no right answer but you are right. Is the hardest thing in the world to do.

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  • jen74
    replied
    I do get what you are saying, but it is our duty as pet owners to do the right thing when and if that time should come. The only time an animal should be put to sleep is if they are very sick and suffering terribly. My grandma had a dog and she got to the point where she could not pee anymore and she would not eat and was in terrible pain. My grandma had her put to sleep, and it just about killed her she was so filled with grief over the process, but she could no longer watch the poor thing suffer. I just lost my doggy this past April and I am still greiving pretty bad. He was out baby. He was only just turning 9. He collapsed and we rushed him to the animal 911. They took xrays and said that his heart was filled with fluid and that it looked like there may have been a tumor that ruptured. The vet said that she see's this in alot of animals. It happens out of the blue. My puddin did not even show symptoms before it happened. Puddin died 15 minutes after we got him to the hospital. I am glad I did not have to make that decision, it would have devestated me. Before he died the vet said that I was going to have to make a decision, but she told me that there was no cure and that he would likely suffer if I left him alive. God made that choice for me, so I did not have to do it. I can imagine it is the hardest thing a person would have to do. I only say it is humane because what is better, to let a animal live in suffering when the outcome is that they are still going to die? Like I said, I wish they had that for humans that a terminally ill, but they do not so people have to suffer. That is just my opinion though.

    Jen

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  • waterflow
    replied
    Jen, I"m not sure if putting animals to sleep is humane. Unless they are to the point where they don't understand what is going on. All 5 dogs I had knew what was going to happen. The others that were still around barked for the other one as much to say they were yelling no. They were ok mind wise but physically they weren't and my one dog kept moving so the vet couldn't do the needle but in the end he did. I have thought about that day, when would it come for the cats and I hope with everything in me they go peacefully in their sleep.

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  • waterflow
    replied
    She is doing some what better now. She gets worse it seems now only when I have company. Which thankfully isn't very often but she only had diarahria once lately so I'm hoping that is a good sign. The other cat has been doing really great. She only had one set back when her sister first came down with it. I have found it is better for Pumpkin if I stay calm and not make a big deal about it. It has to run its course so I try to keep everything going the same. At least I Carecredit card I have makes it a little bit easier on me. I don't have to worry about not having money for their meds or incase one of the others get sick but I do have to worry about paying it off within 6 months. I just hope they don't get worse with time like I did because there is no other meds for them then what they get now. Never would I have thought 5 years ago (come January) I would be a professional cat owner. Wow, how time goes by fast and how things change in that time too.

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