What treatment for my 9 yr. old daughter?

[Shelleynz]

Hi everyone
My daughter had an accident on her roller blades a while ago in which she badly bruised her bladder area. A few weeks later she started complaining about episodes of sharp shooting pains, a full bladder feeling like she hasn't gone for a week, and urgency/freq. She has between 2+4 of these episodes/day which last about half an hr.
Just in case she had an infection I did a home urine test and was horrified to see a very high WBC count, trace blood, and NO infection. Oh no, it's IC I thought.
I'm taking her to my Dr. this week, who I've managed to educate a little about IC. Her symptoms are different to mine so I'm wondering what sort of treatment would be suitable for a 9 yr. old girl?
For now we've stopped her drinking strong lemon drinks made from freshly picked lemons, also oranges which she loves and coke ice blocks.
I'm so afraid that he might suggest a visit to a urologist who'll insist on doing a cystoscopy. I think that would be quite traumatic for a child.
I'd appreciate some ideas from anyone who has a child with IC.
Shelley

[ICNDonna]

I know how very worried you are feeling. It's very difficult to see our children in pain. How long ago was it when she fell? It could very easily be that she has an injury that will heal with time, but I also think it's a good idea to check it out.

If she does need to see a urologist, my suggestion would be that if a cysto is needed she should have some sedation.

And please let me know how she is doing.

Sending warm hugs,
Donna

[icnmgrjill]

Shelly! Here's my guess based, in part, on my experience as a child.

It's quite likely that the fall traumatized her pelvic floor muscles. Now, realize that the organs and muscles in the pelvis only speak one language... frequency.. urgency.. pressure... pain.. when traumatized. So, a UTI could feel like IC (as we all well know)... and so could a traumatic muscle injury. That's why it's so hard to diagnose IC... and why muscle injuries are often ignored at first.

Muscle injuries are very commonly experienced by bike riders.. and I would strongly suggest that she not ride a bicycle for a while!!!!

So, you might want to consider taking her to an OB-GYN who can do a very gentle pelvic floor assessment... in addition to conducting the normal series of UTI cultures. (I had my first pelvic while I was in 5th grade and wasn't traumatized at all).

If she tests negative for UTI, I would strongly suspect a muscle injury rather than IC.

In my case, I developed frequency/urgency for three years as a young teenager. My diagnosis was urethritis and urethral syndrome.... because my urethra became very narrow. It was almost the diameter of a needle and felt like I was really trying to pee through a needle.. with lots of urgency feelings at night. I had many dozens of urethral dilations to force it open. In hindsight, I think that what I did have (instead) was a massive pelvic floor spasm as a result of ramming my crotch on my bicycle. When the pelvic floor contracts and spasms, it can also cause spasms in the urethra.

Whatever you do, I would definitely avoid antibiotics UNTIL you have a test which absolutely cultures out as a positive infection. So, ask for a culture... even two or three... if needed. It's too easy to assume infection or IC... when it could, in fact, just be a muscle injury.

Try asking her if it's hard to urinate... or if there are times when it feels worse during the day... (i.e. like while running or doing PE) and, at the same time, remember that we all have to rest muscle to allow it to heal. If it hurts, encourage her to stop and rest first... just like she'd have to if she'd pulled a muscle in her leg or arm. Don't let her run through the pain to make it worse.

Good luck and let us know how your MD consultation goes. If you want any research citations about the muscle injuries, you can start with our guest lecture series by Jerome Weiss and R. Kotarinos. They both covered injuries quite well.

Jill [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Shelleynz]

Hi Donna & Jill
Thanks for your replies. I feel a bit better now that they could be caused by injury rather than be IC. Would an injury to the pelvic floor muscles show a high WBC count?
She said she feels worse when swimming and climbing trees.
I will insist that our Dr. request at least 1 urine culture.
Shelley

[Shelleynz]

Dr. Visit Yesterday
Our dr. started off saying that he thought Genevieve's symptoms were caused by her injury but changed his mind when he found a high WBC count in her urine. He ordered a technically correct MSU and wrote "IC?" on the the accompanying lab. form. Genevieve's symptoms are intermitent at this stage and she generally seems happy in herself. I hope she doesn't get worse and am wondering what IC treatments are ok for children to try please? I really need to think about our options here.
I told Genevieve not to worry too much b/c she has a Mum who knows lots about IC (thanks to the ICN) understands and can help her a lot.
Thanks.
Shelley

[PikkuMyy]

Hi Shelley,

I had severe UTI's???? when I was about 7 years old. I can remember having the symptoms of IC and sitting onthe toilet in a lot of pain. I was hospitalized and given a cystoscopy. I was awake the whole time, but they must have given me some local anesthesia? I can't be sure because I felt them putting the catheter in. (it hurt but not that bad. I did not cry, and the doctors joked with me and reassured me the whole time) I could feel my bladder filling with water. Eventually I had to pee and they made me pee while lying there. That was the only bad part. It wasn't urine, just water that they had pumped in, but it felt really embarassing to have to do it and then to lie there with my lower parts all wet.
But then it was over and I wasn't in pain afterwards.

I agree with the other women that it is probably caused by the injury. As a now 24-year old, I've got symptoms again. I have not had a second cysto, but I started to take Magnesium Oxide because it really relaxes your muscles and I feel better for the first time in months. Adult dosage is about 400-500 a day, but you should ask your dr. how much she should have.

hope this helps! Please tell her that we are thinking of her and hoping that she'll get better soon.

Emily - [email protected]

[Shelleynz]

Thanks Emily
Is Magnesium Oxide like an alternative (natural) anti-spasmodic? Genevieve started MSM yesterday and if this doesn't help I was thinking of asking our Dr. for a low dose anti-spasmodic suitable for children.
I've seen a few other posts on these Boards from people who have found Magnesium Oxide helpful for their IC and even asthma. Genevieve has asthma too.
Shelley

[PikkuMyy]

Yes, Shelley. Magnesium is like an anti-spasmodic/muscle relaxer. I actually have had moderate-severe asthma since I was three years old. I have been seeing an asthma and allergy specialist who is a regular MD as well as knowing about alternative treatments since Sept. and I've never been better. I feel really dummb because I should have been taking Magnesium since then.

Everyday I take: Intal inhaler to prevent attacks and strengthen my mast cells, NAC (you can look it up online but it is some sort of chemical present in cell reactions that really helps asthma) Ester C, acidophilus, and an anti-oxidant supplement with vitamins, minerals, and things like NAC and essential fatty acids.

I was just lazy about getting the Magnesium, especially since he had told me to get magnesium aspartate, and aspartate is bad for IC. Anyway, after reading some other people's posts, I went and bought a bottle of Magnesium Oxide. You can read my post entitled "ANOTHER MAGNESIUM SUCCESS" on the ALternative Therapies board. Within a day or two, my symptoms really lowered. I no longer have urgency all day and less urethral pain.

I feel really silly because i should have been doing this all along for my asthma. Magnesium works so well for asthma that they are giving it via IV in the emergency room for severe attacks. It is much better than all of those drugs.

I am actually home sick with a bad asthma attack, and am on prednisone for a few days. However, since seeing this dr. and taking the supplements, this is the first time i've been sick this winter, which is a miracle. Usually I am out of school for at least a week, if not longer. I have had no colds, no flus. (last year I had the flu twice, and several colds)

So I would definitely talk to her pediatrician because it will help her asthma if nothing else. I wish that I had had such a dr. when I was her age. My asthma was really severe until Intal came around. It changed my life, and it has no side effects. If she doesn't take it, talk to your dr. about it.

[Shelleynz]

Hi Emily
Thanks for all that info. It's most encouraging. I looked for Magnesium Oxide yesterday but couldn't find any without a lot of additives. The chemist tried to re-assure me that Vit.B, potassium and calcium, to name a few, were ok, but I'm not so sure about that for IC.
Shelley

[rnewman]

Shelley-
Hi. I send you my best wishes and tons of hugs. I can only offer you what I know, but I would like to agree that yes, the signs and symtoms are much like trauma. I would imagine that the test kit you had included strips with colored like felt patches on them. If thats the case, I am giong to venture to say that yes some WBCs could be the result of trauma. I say this because trauma to the urinary bladder, paticularly blunt trauma, can cause innflamation (hence the IC symptoms) and that would raise WBCs. A labratory test can differentiate between infection type white blood cells or an inflammatory type-reaction response (and also, i know you mentioned no trace of blood, but perhaps some tissue was either cut or scarred inside that could also cause a raise in WBCs.) However a labratory test in this case would be more comprehensive than a home test, so I advise that and holding out on the antibiotics until you are difinative. Also, I sincerely advise that you look into a pediatric GYN. They do exist,and since the problem here is trauma a pediatric GYN would be more familiar with age specific anatomy and therefor how gentle to be and abnormals, should he/she spot them. (Im sure they would be more equipped to mentally prepare your daugter as well.) And I do believe, with my nursing studies and my small but quickly growing knowledge of IC, that it could be a temporary reaction, and removing things from her diet and perhaps ice/heat to the lower abdomen/perineum would help her to heal and in time return to normal. In my two years of pediatric nursing, if there is one thing I have learned, its that children are the most resiliant creatures on earth, and rightly so.

Hugs and Hope-
Rachel

[JOJO]

Hi
Im sorry to hear about your little girl. I myself is looking into Magnesium. I would reccomend looking back into the Alternative Posts. I think the one someone suggest that had no additives was Solgar Mag Oxide. Heres a Hug for your little girl and she is very lucky to have you!-JOJO