Why do they hurt us?

[RAS6]

Please don't get the wrong impression, my husband is really a good guy. But my being sick has really hurt our marriage. He hasn't left me, and he doesn't abuse me, cheat, gamble, drink, do drugs, or anything else like that. It has been almost a year since all the horrible pain began. Everytime we get in a stupid little fight now, he brings up nasty things about my illness, usually saying things like "Why are you are so tired, I bet it took so much energy to do one load of laundry this week", or "why are you always such a miserable person? Why don't you just get over it?" Last week he was mad he couldn't find a certain spice and accused me of "hiding it". I helped him find it, but told him if needed me to help I would appreciate being asked. Well that was not the right thing to do! He got so nasty, complaining about how the dishes are always dirty and that I am always complaining and that we never have sex (which we do, just not as much as he wants) He says later that he only says those things because he know they bother me more than anything. And that to me makes it worse! If he was really upset about those things, I wish he would just talk to me about them when we are not both mad, but could understand why they would come. But to say them just to be mean? Why would you think of the worst things to say to someone you supposedly love if you just want to get to them? There are alot of mean nasty things I could say that would get to him, but I love him too much to hurt him like that. I guess we have different personalities. With him everything, even a fight, is a compitition. If I am angry, I at least stick attempt to the topic at hand, I do not like to bring up past mistakes or issues. I try not to bring up past fights either. Last night we got in a whopper. He is excited that his favorite band is coming out with a new album and told me we need to save money by fall "so we can see them 5 times" I said there is no way we can afford that. So he said, well I'll go without you. I said there is still no way! Then he just snapped! He said I am a miserably B****y person and he will not let me drag him down. I said I don't know what you are talking about. He said I was trying to kill his spirit and not let him be excited about the new tour. I said I am excited too and we can deifnately go to one or two shows, not 5! Then he went on about how he makes all the money and I stay at home complaining. I mentioned that when he makes these ellaborate plans, we end up in financial trouble and I have to go ask my parents for money (which has happened more times than I can count) to make sure we don't get things turned off or get evicted. Then he just started yelling at me to F-ing shut up. It was really scary. He is usually not like this. I think he just feels out of control and yelling at me makes him feel like he has control back. I just went to bed. He came up and took his pillows and slept on the couch. He was able to go to sleep right away and that bothers me too (I had to keep going down stairs for meds and heard him snoring only a half bour after), I was up until 3 am listening to music and crying. I have told him over and over again that him being cold to me hurts more than a punch in the face. And yet he continues to be cold to hurt me. I just feel like these fights take our relationship to a worse point everytime. Maybe that is silly, but we aren't like we used to be. He is rarely affectionate without being sexual, and that is frustrating to me. I know this isn't what he asked for, and he could have left, but I wish he would be more supportive. He won't go to appointments with me, he won't go to counsoling with me, he won't read any of the articles here written by an IC spouse. When I mentioned the new book and that there is a place here for IC family members to post, he thought it was hilarious and laughed about how I would love it if he did that! I had to hide how much that hurt. He says all the time that being sick is my hobby. Being sick isn't a hobby, but my illness is out of control right now and I have to be an assertive and up to date patient or I am not going to get better, and I cannot continue having to live the rest of my life at the level I am at right now. So that means posting here alot, reading the IC ezine, getting info on new treatments, going to the Doctor alot. I talk about things alot with him, because that is what we do about everything else. I get nervous/excited, etc. about trying new treatments and I want to share with him. We used to be best friends, he was the first person I would share news, good or bad, with, and it was the same for him too. Now it's like I am not allowed to talk about it anymore, I am not allowed to complain, ask for help, anything. And it sucks! This happened before, a few months ago, but then after a few weeks he got better and was more supportive. But if I ever bring up money issues, or that traveling, go doing stuff gets to me because it tires me out, elevates my pain, etc, he gets really angry and thinks I am attacking him. Yesterday I had such horrible vaginal pains I literally was lying on the kitchen floor crying and swearing (not like me and was before our fight!) He sat at the computer typing and didn't even pay attention. Maybe he is just used to it. But it is like he doesn't even care anymore. He doesn't try to comfort me, anything. He barely talked to me today, and just pecked my cheek before going to work. I am really mourning our relationship today. Maybe to him these fights are no big deal (he grew up in a family were his Mom and Dad had very violent fights with things thrown, and each would hit each other) but to me is feels like we are in big trouble when we fight like this. I keep telling him that and he either blows it off or gets angry.
Can people who love a chronically ill patient just get used to it, or even immune to the fact that our symptoms are not going away or getting better?
Again, please know this is not a mean, hateful guy. He is usually loving, he is a great Dad and a nice person. He is just hurting and is taking it out on me and I am already barely functioning. Beyond just being quiet and doing my part to get better I don't know what else to do.
Thanks for listening. I just don't have anyone to talk to. My friends and sister get angry at him (which I don't want) and our one mutial friend goes back and tells him everything!
Just needed to vent!

[littlemyrn]

I'm really sorry to hear you hurting so much. Men are programmed to fix things. I imagine he is frustrated that he can not help or heal you and he is taking it out in a way that is not right. I went through this with my ex husband, I finally started having someone else to take me for surgery, etc. because he would get so frustrated. There has to be a way for better communication between the two of you. Being with someone who is chronically ill is hard, for the one who is ill and the care taker. Again, I am sorry you are having to go through this.

[tigger_gal]

vent away, I know this all to well... I think its that Y chromazone in them.
sending you great big hugs, from someone who completely understands.

[GriffsMommy]

((((((((((Rachel))))))))) I'm so sorry that you're having such a tough time with your hubby. It really is hard for them because they do want to fix us but they can't. My hubby has a hard time with it too sometimes. If it's not one thing with me it's another and it's rare that I feel completely well.

My hubby and I fight but it sounds like you've been having some really bad ones lately. I think all husbands get upset about less sex, my hubby understands that it's not my fault and he knows I want to be normal he just gets frustrated. I would really try to talk to him and tell him that you are worried about your relationship. My hubby can have a bad temper sometimes and I have NEVER felt scared at all. That's not a good sign. If you can't get him to go to counseling with you then maybe you need to start off by yourself and maybe you can get him to go later? I know from your other posts that you have been trying to get your daughters ADHD under control and all of this can't be helping with that at all.

We're all here for you when you need us.

[Roxie2007]

Hi Rachel,
I'm SO sorry you and your family are having to deal with IC and all the ugly stuff it does to us. It's very difficult to live day to day in pain and having to deal with other stressors in life. I know my husband has trouble dealing with my pain. He's always asking me "what can I do to help you??" but really just his being there is a great help.....but he doesn't realize that and wants to 'fix' me. I really wish he could! I have several other health issues besides the IC so there's many days when I'm just wiped out and/or in lots of pain.
Please feel free to vent.....you can PM me if that would help you! Believe me, I've been there! Hopefully one day scientists will get this monster figured out and we'll all have good days again! (((HUGS!))) Roxie

[blueeyes46]

You can PM me anytime as well. I have a LOT of the same issues with my husband. ( he really is a great guy and terrific father but I think it's all been too much for him as I have other medical issues as well) One example: last week I was in so much pain. I was sitting at the kitchen table and he was about 10 feet away watching tv while I sobbed my head off. He didn't even get up and hug me or anything. PM me!

Hang in there and try to keep your chin up.

[**Angie**]

Vent away and let it all out to keep the stress down. I'm sure quite a few of us have been thru similiar things with our husbands. My poor husband got the short end of the stick with me health wise. I was in the ER 3wks after we got married and it hasn't stopped since--one thing after another for 16yrs. Your just going thru one of those hard times that passes. You do see the good things in your husband and that's what is saving him from getting a frying pan upside the head.

[Zygala87]

A good husband and good man. I don't think so. He sounds like an immature kid to me. Should it have been him to come down with a chronic illness I can assure you he would expect your constant loving care. Yes it is a strain on him but you are the one in pain and hurt. How dare he add to it! Go get counseling ASAP. You need strength and self-esteem. You are a young struggling family. It's diffucult but you are not the source of all his troubles. I doubt things are going to change unless you take some positive action soon. I really care about you. Please keep us informed. Hugs, Ziggy

[tigger_gal]

My husband was like this, he hasn't really criticized me like that in a long time. Ziggy dose have a point. What struck a note with mine was when we found our he has thyroid issues, stage 2 live disease and hep c. They hide there feelings and tend to forget that we as women are not on the same wave length. (I wanted to post more last night but my ambien kicked in quickly.) Not that this justifies any actions by any means, but, they really do not get it. Growing up in a negative family setting dose not help their short comings. Yes they are adults, but it they still grew up thinking it was ok, and normal to treat people that way.. I personally ran out of tears for this, and make sure I tell him, if he has a problem with me there is the door, don't let it hit you in the butt on the way out.. I find ignoring works well, after 3 days of it he finally comes to bed and woke me up. I flat out told him to leave me alone, I wasn't interested in any type of sex with him. He grabbed me and held me tight and told me he had no intentions on loosing me and he loved me. I told him that he was working really hard at it, and make no mistake that I need him, he is here because I want him here.
The sobriety and Jacob has changed him greatly, and for the better. I had to set aside my heart and think with my head. I wrote down the pros and the cons. Some men live in a black and white world. its either one way or the other, and can't seem to stay in the middle some where. Maybe it would help if your hubby went to your family doctor and talked to him how he feels. Mine did and he got on anti-depressants to help him deal with how he feels that he can't "fix" me. and of course his own personal issues with how he was raised.

[leelee88]

Rachel,

You know I am always here for you.. I think all of these ladies have gave some wonderful answers and advice..I talked to my husband about this and let him read your post he something is not right..You said you know your husbands loves you which of course he does, but something has to be bothering him. I have learned with men they lash out when either they are hurting or something is bothering them and they dont know the answers or how to fix it..You see men grow up in being taught they are the strong ones that they are the ones who hold the home together that they are the ones who fix things when they are broke They are the providers.. Well now your husband may be having all this lay on his shoulder and he probably is scared because he feels helpless that he cannot fix you..

And you know as far as making love and sex that is the way alot of men show thier emotions that is how they feel and give love..Dom and I have struggled with this but through many many deep conversations he has learned that making love or sex is not really the way someone should show someone love, it should be based on a more deeper communication..We talk and tell each other every day how we feel and what we are thinking we stay in touch with each other in every way.. I always tell him he is so much appreciated and he does the same to me..We hold hands all the time and give many hugs..You and your husband really need to get back to the basics and get to know one another again, before you both start showing resentment and growing apart...Best of luck to you and you know I am here for you anytime..((((((((hugs)))))))))

Ronda

[waterflow]

It doesn't have to be a husband saying those things. I get it from my family. I know seeing you in pain and having both your lives turned upside down because of the IC is hard but nothing calls for him to say those things or act that way. I know I've said it before but marriage vows were "in sickness and in health". Doesn't he realize the more upset you are the worse you feel? It amazes me how we are not suppose to let dishes and laundry go but let the other people get just one little cold and the whole world has to stop. I don't know what to say to help you out. I'm going through family problems myself and haven't a clue how to fix it all. Hope things get worked out and he starts to treat you better. On the sex thing. It might be great and all but if I can go through my whole life without it (I'm 42) so can the rest of the world. No one should complain that they are not getting enough of it. It's suppose to be something special between the two people.

[RAS6]

Like most incidents before, he has calmed down and acts like everything is fine. But I don't feel that way completely. I am getting therapy, but only once a month b/c of my insurance. (gotta love insurance companies!)
After four years of being with him (2 married) I do feel forced to admit that he is pretty immature when it comes to alot of things. It does feel like his needs come first. But again, he is always thinking about our kids and wanting a good life for them. What does scare me (and I have talked to his Mom and my therapist about this) is that he somatimes acts so much like his Dad. I don't think he even realizes it. Not in the big ways of course (his Dad left his Mom for cocaine and another woman, barely saw his kids until they were teenagers, has lied and cheated his way through life, even putting his own mother in debt to the point of bankrupcy) My husband has his dad's little traits, having to have things his way, never admiting he needs help or anything is wrong, refusing to go to the Doctor (I mentioned this in February when we were having problems and he admited he couldn't handle the stress at work, his Dad wouldn't go when he gets sick either) being very sarcastic and saying he is "kidding" but the same things come out when he is mad. I can be mean too because when we fought one night and he got mean and nasty I told him he was acting like his father (because he was screaming at me) It may be true, but bad timing!
What I don't understand is that the fights come and go. This is not an everyday thing(I don't think anyone would have stayed if it was!) We were having alot of similar issues back in January (some of you may remember us fighting and he was screaming and banging around the house because I had forgotten to wash his work clothes)
I told him flat out that I couldn't continue that way, and he saw I was very scared that night. And honestly, things were better for months. He doesn't get so mad about dirty work clothes anymore, he washes them himself sometimes and he mentioned he is getting more shirts and shorts because he only has three of each and I am washing them EVERY DAY.
Nothing I can think of has changed, except that money issues are back again, and that's when I speak up. But other than that, my health certainly isn't any better, or sex life is the same (2-3 times a months, but that is all I can handle. I flare for DAYS afterwards!)
Last month he almost lost his job, but I encouraged him to step up and confront his boss. He did. He didn't get personal and was professional, but he told how he felt. And she appologized! He didn't lose his job, his store is doing wonderful now, so I don't think it is stress from work. In fact, as stressful as that was, we came together and felt closer. We were working together to figure things out. I think deep down inside, below the little voice in his head that makes him think rationally, he hates being told "no" and when it comes to money I am the nagging wife to him. He honestly has no head for finances, and if I don't do it, we would be in big trouble. Usually that is what brings all the fights on.
I have to remember what my Mom always told me: "girls mature faster than boys" I am only a year younger than him, but he, at 26, can be very immature. Add the pressure of having a sick wife and being in a stressful position and that explains it to me.
I do bring up when we fight that he needs to lower his voice, that we need to stop, because I hate having our kids hearing this. Mostly it is at night when they are sleeping or I will stop it right away. He grew up with horrible fights, maybe he doesn't get that kids will remember. But he does remember, he tells me horror stories about the fights his parents had.
Because ours pale incomparision, I think he think's they are normal. But I am not so sure. People fight, but to bring up hurtful things doesn't sound like 'healthy" argument to me. So I can see that.
But the solution? I have no clue.
I have tried basically what everyone has suggested, talking about feelings, IC sex, love, until I am blue in the face. Mostly it is a one sided conversation.
He has days he admits he knows it is hard for me. At first he was there to hold my hand everytime I cried from pain, made dinner on nights I just couldn't get off the couch, held me at night even if he knew he wasn't getting anything sexual in return. But those days are few and far in between now. That's why I asked if anyone felt that spouses sometimes start "getting used " to our pain, or even become immunune to it, to protect themselves. It's like when the first surgery wasn't helpful, the Elmiron didn't work and on and on through all these treatments that he got further detached. We just get through all other issues together. I don't understand why he can't be there to hold my hand when the pain is horrible. He does if I ask, but like I said the other day was so bad and he didn't even turn his head!
We still get along. We took a trip and had a great time (until the last few hours when I had pain on the way home) We are affectionate, hold hands, hug, but I initiate most of it. He is affectionate in more sexual ways, grabbing my butt, breasts, and I don't like it. To me it means we wants something I can't do that day. To him, it is a way of showing affection. We have talked about that alot, but it hasn't changed. Most days we can talk about what's going on with the kids, TV, movies, books, thoughts on life, everything. Just every now and then he loses his temper over something stupid and I have no idea why or when it will happen. And I guess that is what scares me. The not knowing. He just gets his feelings out in angry bursts and I don't what to do next. I can keep asking him to go to therapy, but he has to make that descision. I can't drag him there!
And again, we had two bad fights within a few weeks of each other and we hadn't even argued in months. So please do not think this is every day. I wouldn't have been able to stay in this relationship if it was.
Thanks for responses and insights. Like I said, I try to talk to him all the time. He doesn't seem to get that illness does affect you right to your core. It isn't somethingthat you just "get over". He sees it like having a cold and it goes away. But IC is Chronic. I am still just grasping what that means, so it is understandable that he is struggling with it. I am trying to get through the "stages" of being sick myself, I think I am past denial (it is definately IC!) but I still have angry, "why me" days, I still have depresed days, I have those "I can beat this" days. I am slowly learning to live with the diagnosis, but never let a Doctor tell me we are out of options if I feel my quaility of life is not what I want it to be. This is my life after all! There is a definate medium to me, that's why I get upset that he thinks this is my "hobby". It hasn't been a year since my diagnosis and I am still dealing with the fact that I am 25 and chronicfally ill. And for the most part I am happy with him, there are the 4 or 5 fights a year that get nasty and I wonder how you can talk like that to someone you love. But I used to be nasty myself a few years ago. I would call him names that I can't say here, yell and scream that he didn't understand, it's like we have switched roles. I am trying hard to be careful of every word that comes out of my mouth because things said even in a heated argument can hurt so much.
Well, today is a new day and I see my therapist next week. We will have alot to talk about!
Thanks again.

[leelee88]

Rachel,

After reading your last post. The truth of the matter is he has never dealt with his past issues with his childhood and until he does this. Things will only get worse...

(((hugs))))

Ronda

[RAS6]

I know Rhonda, and I think he does too. He has dealt with them better than his brother (his brother was out of control as a kid, very violent, had to be put in a home for a long time, drank and did drugs as a teen) So in his mind, he has turned out OK. He isn't an abuser or addict, he has never even drank anything with alcohal or smoked a cigarette. I am seeing that he is comparing his actions to the very very abusive and disfunctional ones he grew up with. So in his mind the fights we have arent' that bad (b/c his parent's were worse and ended in divorce), the issues he is having don't require counsoling (again b/c the pale in comparison to what he dealt with)
Because he was always the quite kid who kept out of trouble and was always praised by adults as being "good" he has a hard time dealing with his faults. But if I ever try to bring anything up (surface issues mind you,never getting this deep) He gets upset, saying I try to psychoanalize everyone and diagnose everyone. I'll admit, it may seem that way. I was a Psych major, work with kids with mental illnesses, and grew up in a very dysfunctional family where visiting Mom in the Psychiatric hosipital became the norm. But because of this, it is easy for me to talk about feelings, to admit I am depressed, to not see therapy as a big deal. I am not intentionaly trying to "diagnose" anyone, I just tend to see things at a deeper level. And he does too. He is right on about other's feelings, he is very perceptive about other's issues and intents. So I can't imagine hiding truths from himself is easy and maybe that's why the feelings come out so angry. He doesn't like to admit flaws at all, he was, after all, the "good kid".
Again, I will talk about it at therapy, ways to get him to come with me and see if my counselor has any ideas. I have flaws too and am not perfect in this marriage and if we could talk about our isseus together with someone mediating I think it would help. But he thinks the man always gets ganged up on, and we can't afford it, That's his excuse anyways. Funny how money is an issue then!

[leelee88]

I am alot like you Rachel I can express my feelings and talk about them even though I have had a very hard childhood and life. But its because I have faced my past head on..And yes I can see where he would think he has no problem because he was the (good) kid, but even being the good kid he still has the scars .. I just wish he could see that.. I think it would be a great idea for you to talk to your therapist and get his or her opinion on how to get him to open up about this.. I truly believe this is the base of the problems..And the money thing is just his immaturity he will grow out of that hopefully..

Ronda