Oxalic acid in foods a possible irritant?

[purpleviolet]

I've been on an elimation diet, but the wrong one for IC even though everything I've been eating is bland - like sweet potatoes and quinoa (non-gluten grainlike)and an alkaline vegetable broth. I have never felt worse just about IC wise. So I researched these foods and came up with high oxalic acid. Now I thought it was just an irritant for vulvodynia which I don't have, but I found one IC'er on this forum (alwaysgreen) who mentions it. I am going to try to eliminate it from my diet. Has anyone else found oxalic acid is bad for IC? It is in a lot of foods. Some conflicting lists are on the internet, too. I found this link which says it can make urine burn! (Actually my urine does not burn, but when I am in a flare my bladder and urethra just hurt). This link also says to counteract oxalic acid calcium citrate must be apart from vit d.

[MaryS]

PurpleViolet,
I was following the IC Diet strictly and found that foods that were ic friendly bothered me. Plain air popped popcorn,peppers, potatoes,corn, spinach,eggplant and other items. When I eliminated these items the burning went away. I researched and found these had I believe moderate/high levels of oxalates.I also found lists of foods that contain histamine and these foods also irritated me. I think there is alot of things that cause bladder burning besides the things on the ic diet. I think this is an individual thing. What bothers some people has no effect on others. I also read somewhere that meats and eggs are acidic and i have problems with eggs and red meats. Also, if i eat too much chicken I get bladder burning. This is all so confusing because the more you read the more complicated it gets but I found that all of this applies to me. I also read about eating to much protein can cause irritation to the bladder. So for me i eat foods that are low in oxalates and i avoid eggs and eat smaller portions of meat/chicken. All of this has helped me. But everthing fell into place for me when I read about meat being acidic. Because I was eating only plain chicken, peas and squash and my bladder was burning and I though how can this be when these are IC friendly. I find if I eat to much bread I am bothered as well.

[purpleviolet]

we are so individual, yes

One time I was on the atkins diet and I felt great despite the very acid urine from the ketones produce by no carbs - all meat and cheese but virtually no oxalic acid I guess. Go figure that one!

[Mothergoose]

I eat a very low carb diet and high fat, my bladder likes this better. I still don't eat the foods on that are on the no list for IC, but I also don't eat sugar or simple carbs.

My bladder has never felt better, far from prefect and i do still get flares but not as bad or as long.

I really have no idea if there is anything to this but it is working for now, so i plan to stick with it.

MG

[purpleviolet]

low carb agreed with me

I remember when I tried Atkins low carb, I felt better

[SuziQ64]

I didn't realize potatoes contained oxolates. I hardly ever ate them prior to ic but now do (never really liked them, still don't). I haven't eaten them in a few days and interestly feel better. I also started to eat salmon, but wonder if this may be a culprit too? Thanks for bringing the oxolates to our attn..

[ICNDonna]

I had to stop the Atkins diet when I reached what they called the ideal levels.


Donna

[purpleviolet]

in regards to salmon

I just posted a thread on histamines in this diet forum and it is about an anti-histamine supplement (perhaps not a drug like prelief is not a drug - not sure about this) but anyway I read that fish does usually not have histamines except if it gets old then it can develope them later! So it may depend on how fresh your fish is. How do we know that unless we caught it ourselves!
Some people may be sensitive to histamines in food. Between the generic acids, the oxalic acid specifically, latex, histamines, gluten, yeast, and who knows what else there could hardly be anything left to eat if we were sensitive to all of it!

[MaryS]

This is what I found on histamines: salmon is listed

The outcome of a one month histamine restricted diet with 44 individuals suffering from 'idiopathic' urticaria, angioedema and pruritus found that 61% reported significant improvement and 18% reported some improvement. Other symptoms such as migraines and panic attacks were also alleviated for some of the participants. As the study was not of the type favored by scientists (i.e. double blind) the authors are reluctant to draw any conclusions other than that the results suggest that this type of restricted diet may be of benefit in some cases. [ J Nut Env Med 2001;11(4)]

The longer food is stored or left to mature, the greater its histamine content and the more problematic it can be for individuals with food sensitivities and intolerance.

Fresh meat contains no or very little histamine. However, when meat is processed further, the maturation process results in the accumulation of biogenic amines.

Examples of foods/substances that may increase histamine levels, directly or indirectly, resulting in symptoms including digestive problems, headaches and skin rashes are:

Alcohol, particularly red wine and champagne. Also white wine and beer.
Aged, smoked, canned fish and fish sauces. Tuna fish, mackerel, sardines, anchovy, herring, catfish, salmon.
Pizza
Smoked and processed meats such as salami, ham, bratwurst and bacon
Sauerkraut
Certain vegetables: tomato, spinach, eggplant, avocado, mushrooms and canned vegetables as well as commercially prepared salads
Certain fruits: strawberries, bananas, papayas, kiwi, pineapple, mango, tangerines, grapefruits, red prunes, peas
Red wine vinegar, balsamic vinegar
Soy sauce
Cheese
Mustard
Ketchup
Sunflower seeds
Chocolate/cocoa
Coffee, black tea
Some fruits: citrus, bananas, strawberries, red prunes, pears, kiwi, raspberries, papaya
Bread and confectionery made with yeast
Peanuts, cashews, walnuts
While nuts do not contain histamine, they do contain histidine. Peanut, sesame, almond, pistachio, pine, and walnut have the highest levels of histidine among the nuts. Histidine, an amino acid, can be used by some gut bacteria to produce histamine. In other words, nuts can raise histamine levels indirectly.

Bananas contain serotonin, a vasoactive amine with properties like histamine, so are generally to be avoided.

Already available and used throughout Europe, Histame, the new dietary ingredient (NDI), the Diamine Oxidase (DAO) enzyme, was acknowledged by the Food and Drug Administration in 2008.

DAO, the intestinal tract histamine-degrading enzyme, breaks down ingested histamine, thus helping to lower overall histamine levels. A deficiency of DAO can cause an increase histamine exposure inside the body, which may result in symptoms of histamine food intolerance including digestive problems.

Histame is for people whose doctors have decided that their discomfort is caused by intestinal food intolerance, a non-immune system-based occurrence.

Histame is the first product worldwide that regulates histamine levels that can cause food intolerance by replenishing the body’s digestive enzyme DAO.

Histamine is a widely distributed biogenic amine, found in many foods. DAO, the intestinal tract histamine-degrading enzyme, breaks down ingested histamine, thus helping to lower overall histamine levels. A deficiency of DAO can cause an increase histamine exposure inside the body, which may result in symptoms of histamine food intolerance including digestive problems. This dietary supplement is clinically shown to regulate the histamine levels in the body (lower intestine) unlike antihistamines which only block the histamine.

Caution is advised. Histame is not cheap. Try to get a sample from a friend, if you can, to try it out first. Also, there are no studies demonstrating it's usefullness, only the claim of clinical effectiveness.

[MaryS]

here is a link for oxalate foods:

http://lowoxalate.info/food_lists/alph_oxstat_chart.pdf

[MaryS]

another oxalate chart

http://lowoxalate.info/recipes.html

[MaryS]

on second chart scroll down a bit and you will see food lists and it lists dairy,fruits grains veggies etc click on that food item and it shows you a chart of the foods and oxalate content. potatoes are listed as high i believe

[MaryS]

Well when I first started the ic diet i found that lots of safe foods bothered me so I knew FOR ME there were other issues going on other then the ic trigger foods. Peas, pears,green beans,cucumbers,carrots,spinach,eggplant, meats,oatmeal, breads.potatoes,peppers and many other foods bothered me and through research I found that foods containing moderate to high oxalates and foods indicated on the histamine chart were things that bothered me in addition to the ic trigger foods. This leaves a person with limited food choices. I also stumbled on the acid/alkaline food list and this explained why chicken/red meat bothered me as they are considered acidic. I then tried to balance acid forming foods with alkaline foods,elimated moderate/high oxalate foods and follow the ic diet and my IC has settled down. I tried to add calcium and calcium citrate but this created constipation issues which then set the ic symptoms back full on. So i just elimated the troublesome foods and stopped the calcium supplements.

[MaryS]

Yes Briza, it is interesting how the histamine/ic diet are so similar. Makes one wonder if it is the histamine release rather then the acid in the foods that irritates IC

[Mothergoose]

My daughter had really bad asthma when she was young age 2-6. The steriod treatment did not help and I was not comfortable giving her so many steroids everyday.

I took her to a ped at a predominate childrens hospital, he put her on a diet of no amines, as he felt she did not have asthma, he felt it was the acids in her stomach backing up into her lungs and makeing it hard for her to breath.

He said she had an inablity to digest amines. I had nver even heard of amines.

He put her on a low amine diet and a high does of vitamines, he promised me within 5 days I would not know my own child, and after walking out of his office I was to promise to never give her inhalers again, he gave me his home phone muber and said if her breathing got worse or she had a full blown attack to call him. I was very scared to do this but I did, and she didn't get any worse.

She was very tempermental to say the least, very hard to hamdle, she never slept, threw constant temertanturms, and ate like a horse but was very skinny. At about 3 she started tellimg me she had chest burn, apperently heart burn at 3 but no Dr. would believe me.

I decided to give this diet a try, now this was 23 years ago and most Dr. didn't believe this or had even heard of it.

She started the diet and Vitamins on a Thursday and by Monday as this Dr. had promised me she had changed so much I wondered who's child had moved into my house, we had peace at last.

This was a baby who cried 24/7, and then moved directly into terrible 2's, she was horrid tempertanturms non stop, I loved her dearly but I really wondered what I had done wrong rasing her for her to be this tempermental and strong willed, and to be so unhappy at such a young age. Every Dr. I took her too up until this guy didn't believe me what she was like.

This Dr. claimed his diet worked for asthma, ADD, ADHD, depression, Bi-Polar and bed wetting. I of course can only speak to the effectiveness the diet for Asthma and depression as i am sure this was part of my daughters problem, who can't relate to that sick all the time and people don't believe you.

She stayed on this diet till she was in highschool and she decided she could chose what she wanted to eat, she had about 8 terible years, only a little bit of Asthma and quite abit of depression. I kept telling her pleading with her to go back on the vitamines and diet.

Finally the meds she was on were making her sick, she didn't like feeling numbe, she was on a high does AD and a mood stablizer. One day she quite taking one of the meds the mood stablizer she had been on that one the shortest time, and it was making her throw up each time she took it, she weened her self off over a month or so, and then decided she was going to stop the Ad too, so she did over a months time again.

Getting off the meds she felt better, she then decided to restart taking the vitamins, and is still taking them, they do help her, she feels better on them than off and can tell if she forgets to take them.

Over time she decided for a number of reasons to go back on the diet, but not as strickly as she was on and she is doing great going on 2 years now. Dr's are surprised she does so well with this combo, but she feels much better and she can control her emotions much better, she has very few mood swings thesedays and it has been a few years now.

I have the diet scanned on my computer but I can't figure out how to attach it here, if you want a cpoy pm me your email address and I will send it to you.

I reason I wrote this is because the diet she was on is very simular to the list of foods posted below.

MG