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  • UTI's and Biofilms

    At the risk of repeating myself I am posting a relatively new finding showing that E. coli can form biofilms in the bladder. Here is an article from a recent journal, Public Library of Science and Medicine.(PLoS)
    http://www.biofilmsonline.com/cgi-bi...msonline/00448

    The work was performed by the Washington Univ lab of Dr. Scott Hultgren, one of the leading researchers of UTI's. Ten years ago he began to find that E.coli form "pods" in the bladder, otherwise known as IBC's, Intracellular Bacterial Commnities. They invade bladder wall cells and "hide" from detection and treatment. When some emerge into the bladder they can be treated with antibiotics, but the antibiotics to not penetrate to eradicate all the bacteria hidden in the pods and thus other bacteria can cause recurring infections. (Others have found that bacteria in the bladder can go into a dormant state called Viable but Non-culturable (VBNC), which is another way they can avoid detection.)

    Now, they have have determined that these are actually biofilms, a common strategy bacteria use to evade detection and treatment all through nature. They are common on indwelling catheters, for instance. They can form in wound infections, ear infections, sinus infections, etc. But they were not suspected in the bladder UTIs until recently. This explains why many have recurring UTIs, even though they treat each one and can become symptom free.

    There is also literature showing that Enterococci (form of Strep) can cause biofilms in the bladder. Furthermore, they found that the biofilms can contain any one or many different species of UTI bacteria like Klebsiella, Pseudomonas, Staph, etc. These, too, can cause recurrent UTIs. A Japanese group found this several years ago but it was little noticed:
    http://escholarship.lib.okayama-u.ac...97&context=amo

    This opens up the medical community to an understanding of why UTI's reoccur so often. Scientists estimate that about half of all women in the US will suffer from a UTI and that 20-40% of these women will have recurring infections.

    So far there is no known way to penetrate or break up a biofilm in the bladder but with the current finding and with so many affected let us hope that research will be hastened.

  • #2
    That's very interesting to those of us who experience infections.

    Donna
    Stay safe


    Elmiron Eye Disease Information Center - https://www.ic-network.com/elmiron-p...mation-center/
    Elmiron Eye Disease Fact Sheet (Downloadable) - https://www.ic-network.com/wp-conten...nFactSheet.pdf

    Have you checked the ICN Shop?
    Click on ICN Shop at the top of this page. You'll find Bladder Builder and Bladder Rest, both of which we are finding have excellent results.

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    I am not a medical authority nor do I offer medical advice. In all cases, I strongly encourage you to discuss your medical treatment with your personal medical care provider. Only they can, and should, give medical recommendations to you.
    [3MG]

    Anyone who says something is foolproof hasn't met a determined fool

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    • #3
      Bio Films

      Great Article Martha,
      I hope they will find what will break bio-films. I hope and pray that! I belive it will help thousands of us
      WHAT YOU HOLD IN MIND, WILL UNFOLD IN TIME.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you Martha...I agree with Pam..what to do??
        Faith, Hope, and Love,
        Katrina


        I believe God is using me. He uses me for God. Things I gain from all my suffering are meant to help others. I hope I can help you too. Email me or start a chat if you like my help or anything. I CARE!Illnesses: IC,IBS, IBD, GERD, PFD, Epilepsy, Endo, Allergies, RLM,Rapid heart beat, low blood pressure,Gastritis,Gall stones,Tendonitis,migraines, Shingles, Prolapsed pouch,ext. fatigue (current problem) I have seen periods of remission and I have seen them end and return. At this time remission is over and working on getting it back!

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        • #5
          thanks

          Martha,
          Thank you so much for the article about UTI's! That doctor described me exactly! I have been so frustrated with getting one after the other. That doctor said some women feel like they are doing something wrong and that summed it all up for me! There are several other aticles at the modern medicine site and I am going back to read them now. Thank you SO much-Malone

          Comment


          • #6
            Let's keep informed

            I'm glad so many relate to this idea of biofilms and UTI's. Actually I meant to cite this article, although both are describing the same research:
            http://mednews.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/10746.html

            The major work on UTI's is being done at Washington Univ along with the University of Washington. Dr. Hultgren is well-known and spoke at the NIH symposium held at the same hotel as the 2003 ICA convention in Alexandria, VA. Although IC has not been related to UTI's since bacteria are not found in IC patients, I personally believe many with IC actually have UTI's that are not diagnosed. In my case they could not find bacteria until I had a broth culture (composed of a nutrient that encourages the growth of fastidious bacteria that do not often grow on the routine culture, or do not grow to the number of colonies the labs look for so are considered contaminants). In my case the broth culture showed Enterococcus and it responded to the right antibiotic.

            I can go months or years without symptoms until another species of bacteria appears or the same one appears again. This makes me believe I may have a biofilm holding several species. So far no patient clinic is looking for biofilms in patients with recurring infections but perhaps they will eventually figure out a method to do so due to the finding mentioned in the research. Biofilms have been known to exist for 30 years so they are not new. And there is research being conducted to treat them. We need to keep searching for new findings that become public. UTI's are a huge medical problem and the cost to the health care system is in the range of $3 billion. Many studies are sponsored by the NIH since there is monetary justification for finding answers.

            I am very motivated to keep up with the work on biofilms and hope others will also. I am also very interested in keeping up with the research first published in 2005 about a high tech method of diagnosing UTI's that had been developed by UCLA.
            http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0202180046.htm

            This article is dated 2006 and they say the test should be available in "2 - 3 years". It would allow rapid identification of pathogens and would not be limited to only a few like E. coli. I personally have had up to 6 different pathogens identified via a broth culture. Most of these would be missed by the routine culture. At last there is recognition that the diagnosis and treatment of UTI's has been based on decades of the same routine methods and we need more up-to-date technology.

            Comment


            • #7
              BIo-Films

              Great articals Martha.

              I do belive in Bio-films and I know for a fact that is what I have been battling all these years. I hope the Doctors will keep up the reaserch to help all of us
              WHAT YOU HOLD IN MIND, WILL UNFOLD IN TIME.

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              • #8
                Biofilms

                Pam, do you suspect this, as I do, or has someone found evidence of a biofilm in your bladder? In the Hultgren article they describe finding evidence of the cells that have been invaded via microscopy, but said this isn't a practical way to diagnose in a clinical setting. I hope they will find a suitable way to do this so we will know for sure.

                The next step is figuring how to treat them. Some way has to be found to break up or penetrate a biofilm. And as he pointed out, it isn't just in the bladder but in other infections such as in sinuses, ears (and the vagina as I know bacterial vaginosis if often a biofilm infection). So many researchers will be working on this.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bio Films

                  I am guessing that I have Bio-Films, I have had this 18 years and don't see how I can't have Bio-Films.

                  I am on Antiboitics right now for a month and am also doing Silver and many more herbal rememdies/acupunture on top of the Antibiotics to see if I can break through bio-films.
                  I have been very sick this last week flu like symptoms and very tiered. So I am hoping to get it gone.

                  Hey Martha do you know someone that will test your bladder to see if you have Bio-films?? I would do it in a heart beat.
                  WHAT YOU HOLD IN MIND, WILL UNFOLD IN TIME.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you're taking silver, be sure to have someone neutral examine your skin tone frequently. It can cause permanent graying of the skin --- it's pretty horrible looking.

                    Donna
                    Stay safe


                    Elmiron Eye Disease Information Center - https://www.ic-network.com/elmiron-p...mation-center/
                    Elmiron Eye Disease Fact Sheet (Downloadable) - https://www.ic-network.com/wp-conten...nFactSheet.pdf

                    Have you checked the ICN Shop?
                    Click on ICN Shop at the top of this page. You'll find Bladder Builder and Bladder Rest, both of which we are finding have excellent results.

                    Patient Help: http://www.ic-network.com/patientlinks.html

                    Sub-types https://www.ic-network.com/five-pote...markably-well/

                    Diet list: https://www.ic-network.com/interstitial-cystitis-diet/

                    AUA Guidelines: https://www.ic-network.com/aua-guide...tial-cystitis/

                    I am not a medical authority nor do I offer medical advice. In all cases, I strongly encourage you to discuss your medical treatment with your personal medical care provider. Only they can, and should, give medical recommendations to you.
                    [3MG]

                    Anyone who says something is foolproof hasn't met a determined fool

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Bio-Films

                      Thank you Donna
                      Yes it can but that is when people take too much, infact if someone does do that to theirselfsthey just don't know what they are doing. so then it scares people.

                      People that do that just know enogh to be dangerous and cause unnessary panick in people that know don't know anything about silver.

                      I am only taking 1/4 tsp 2 x day from Bio-Science where I work. It is a Protein Silver.

                      I am glad you know about that so you can tell people then hopefully they will do research and get themselfs educated on how to use Silver or to just stay away from it

                      Thank You
                      Have a great Day
                      WHAT YOU HOLD IN MIND, WILL UNFOLD IN TIME.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: UTI's and Biofilms

                        Has any one had any luck on this thread? Xxx

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: BIo-Films

                          Originally posted by Pam H View Post
                          Great articals Martha.

                          I do belive in Bio-films and I know for a fact that is what I have been battling all these years. I hope the Doctors will keep up the reaserch to help all of us


                          Hi I have been suffering with constant Utis and stomach pain for 9 years so I suspect this is what I have too. Does anyone know how this can be detected?

                          Lauren x

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: BIo-Films

                            There is an IC person named Ruth K???? who believes most IC is biofilms. i bet if you search on Ruth here you'll find her.
                            She uses a lab that i think is United Medical Lab don't know if need a doctor to request tests.
                            i don't know if it is accurate but some people swear by it. basically ruth treats you with months of antibiotics, and seems to believe everyone she treats has Lyme disease too so treats that with more antibiotics. plus some herbs too...

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