All these kegels make it worse

[pam43]

I had my first evaluation with a PT the other day who said I had PFD, but no trigger points. She mostly did biofeedback on me while I did all these kegels. Now, for homework, I have been doing variations of kegels three times a day. It's bad enough I'm sore from her exam, but I swear these kegels are making my urgency worse. I keep reading conflicting ideas on whether or not IC'ers should be doing these. Now I am wondering if I am actually making myself worse! Anybody have any feedback on this? I sure would appreciate it. Apparently from what she says, my whole treatment for the next five visits is just going to be the biofeedback. Is this normal?

[tigger_gal]

Pam you are 100% right they do make it wose I enede up bedridden for a week after day 2... please be carful
Brat

[ICNDonna]

I suggest you talk with the therapist. It could very well be that you need to back off a little and begin very gradually.

Donna

[ese]

Pam -
My therapist tries to work more with me learning how to relax between kegels. We've worked up to 10 second squeezes with 20 second rest periods in between each. The squeezes do make my spasms worse and increase the pain, but having to consciously relax makes me realize how much I do tense up in that area. She said that as IC-ers we tend to tense our muscles in response to the spasms and pain - so her primary goal in the beginning is to teach me how to relax "down-there". I'm just curious, does your (or anyone else's) therapist let you watch the biofeedback on the computer screen while you're doing your kegels? Watching my "scores" being graphed on the screen really makes me want to squeeze tighter and relax more in between. My therapist also doesn't use probes on IC-ers - she uses electrodes in the peri area. She has IC also, which I think makes her a great therapist!
As far as whether it works or not, for me anyway, I don't really know at this point. I do usually get worse afterwards. But I am learning how to relax more in my pelvic floor area, so I'm hoping this will ultimately help. Who knows???? I think we're all just grasping at straws trying to find the magic one! Hopefully soon we all will!

Ese

[pam43]

Ese, just to let you know, my PT does not use the probes on me either, just sticks the electrodes down by my bottom and on my stomach and hip. She also does let me watch the "goings-on" on the machine. I don't really feel like the machine helps me much as I can usually tell when my pelvic muscles are relaxed and was already working on this at home after reading "Headache in the Pelvis". When I went to her I thought maybe she would practice some of the manual muscle lengthening he talks about in this book. I am going to ask her about this at my next appointment on Tuesday.

[Iris5]

I finished biofeedback training a few weeks ago. When I first started, my pain increased about 50%. But my frequency went down. As the weeks went by, my pain started to improve. But my therapist also changed my exercises after the first couple of weeks, I think because of my pain. First, I did 30 kegels, twice daily - holding for 5 seconds and releasing (which was actually pushing out for me) for 10 seconds. Then, because of my increase in pain, she changed it to hold for 5 seconds and release for 20 seconds. She said that it was the release part that was more important for IC patients to master because we are all usually so uptight, we need to learn how to relax those muscles.

[Nicole in ATL]

I did biofeedback training with a PT for about 6 months. I also have PFD. My "resting" muscle tension is 4 times higher than normal. Like others said, my biggest problem was learning to relax my pelvic muscles. I use a probe during biofeedback therapy and watched the results on the computer.

For me, it does seem to help. But it seems to be one of those things that it takes a long time for it to help. And you have to keep it up every day. It is hard to do sometimes.

If I am in a major flare, I don't do the kegels. Sometimes I just try to stretch my pelvic area with plies (sp?), which my PT recommends.

It wasn't a miracle for me, but I do think it helps.

Nicole

[Marigold]

I experienced this too before I learned about trigger points.

[Zookeeper]

I am going to pt for this too and have had a hard time with relaxing afterwards also,I had to cut back to and am still working on this one.I know it is a hard thing to do.
I did get to watch when I had mine too.and no probes were used on me either.
I know I have shown improvment in some areas and think it was the best thing my uro ever suggested so far.I just strated up with a TENS unit,It's not as good as the one pt uses but I do like how well it works for me.
Best of luck to you and I do hope things get beter for you.
Take care.Love always, Zookeeper Kim

[MakinIT]

My PT put the biofeedback electrodes right on my anus eek but it gave a very good picture of what my pelvic floor muscles were doing between the contraction and relaxation. When you relax, are you actually pushing out...(my therapist says it's like you're passing gas) Its almost the opposite of Kegels. I hurt after but was ok once I did the stretches I needed to do and put some heat on my belly I felt better. Please keep trying, at least a couple more times just to show yourself you gave it an honest effort. (Believe me...the finger in the wazzu is not my favorite activity but it does help after I whine) You also need to let the pT know when it hurts, and where it hurts while she is working with you.

Good luck and don't give up...Its the first step to getting yourself off the couch and back to some exercise. I'm now at least able to ride a stationary bike for 10-15 mins, do about 5-6 yoga stretches, and a Tai-Chi routine. I try to do this 2 times a day...I'm classified Severe IC due to my pain but I am bound and determined to get moving. I hate this . As it is, I still have to sleep for about 16 hours a day/night so I try my best to get up and do something positive when I am up. It's all baby steps. baby

Please don't get me wrong...I'm not lecturing or trying to make you feellike something is wrong. Everyone has such a different perception with this disease. I just found i had to go through some pretty serious emotional "Yuck" before I could accept that some pretty painful stuff was going to have to happen. And I now have a lovely Physical terrorist who is very good with me...knows when I'm just being lazy and when I really am in pain.

Best to you, I really do feel your pain.....Tracey

[Julie Smith]

pt

It is very normal to be sore, in pain after first several visits to pt for pfd. Important to share this w/ pt, you don't need to suffer alone and pt literally has a bag of tricks ... lots of other things they can do. I was very sore at first.,felt ok when there and like wow, i'm actually doing something to help myself. that was until a few hrs. later, and then yikes! i phoned my pt and she said use alternating ice/moist heat in painful areas. the pain increased and lasted a few days. i did continue pt, we just cut way back and built up very slowly. evidently my pfd is really tight, holds all my stress and one or two treatments wasn't going to heal me. so, we went slowly. also, i had been basically sleeping, or housebound for 5 mos. when i started so i was very weak. you need to build up.

your pt will work w/ you, so tell him/her. they want you to feel better too. they send reports to dr. and so it's best for them in that sense and also from a human standpointe.

good luck, try not to be embarrassed, we all went through the same thing. i told my pt with the way she had me on the table and applyed and applied electrodes she'd been where no man had!


oh, and yes i was able to watch the machine while i contracted, it was pretty cool.

[Mimi-in-Chicagoland]

I did this treatment as well and it helped a lot. Watching the monitor helped me focus on what I was really doing. My good friend has IC and has done this. We affectionately refer to this as "the turkey treatment". :eek:

[Julie Smith]

turkey treatment!!!!!

Hi Mimi,

Thanks for sending me a pm. I guess we're all in the same boat while undergoing pt treatments for pfd, exposed. I'm glad they work for you as well.


It's the middle of the night, just woke up to pee and can't go back to sleep. Hope you all had sweet dreams.

Julie

[MakinIT]

Julie

Hey Julie
Your comment to the PT that "she has been where no man has been before" was pretty funny. I have to say that laying on my side, nekked from the waist down as she is pulling apart my cheeks in search of the rouge electrode, the same thought crossed my mind. (I simply squeezed my eyes shut and I believe she super glued the damn thing to my anus...at least when she took it off at the end, I about went through the ceiling and yeeeeowched at her) Very very few people are allowed in that area, including my husband. (I really hate it when you are having an "exam" and the doc is so busy chatting with you he/she forgets to tell you he/she is "goin north" from the southbound lane. ) That's another one that medical personnel wind up peeling me off the ceilling.

I've had a coupleof accupuncture appts in the last month. This gal is one who used to treat me for migraines. She's doing wonderfully with the IC treatments although frankly, I think its just the total relaxation that is helping. But she likes to stick a couple of needles right where the tip of my pubic bone is...Hence....trying to find the stupid things afterwards is like finding a needle in haystack...so to speak..and she doesn't like her patients pulling out their own needles. I've done that in the past and gotten hollered at so when I asked if I could do those she said "no, of course not", and the quest begins....I told her those needles should have little orange flags on them so they can be spotted easily amidst the brush...."sigh" Never thought my body would be such a public thing and that every medical person in the PNW would see me in such comprimisng positions.

Take care ...have a nice day today and tomorrow...and so on...T

[Julie Smith]

pt/acupucture

Hey T,

Sometimes I do surprise myself when I'm funny!!! Honestly, being single I sure wish I'd get some action down there!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, like I said before, my chiropractor does my acupuncture. I lay on my stomach and he applies the needles directly into my belly and down my right leg all the way to my ankle. I'm amazed how much better I feel afterwards. Like you said, relaxation also contributes a great deal.

My parents and my daughter are visiting me this weekend to celebrate my birthday which is next weekend. My daughter attends college and my folks live about 3 hrs. away. I always go visit them and when I told my Mom I couldn't bc I wasn't feeling well enough to drive that distance and also bc when I'm taking medication I simply can't drive. I was totally shocked when she said they would come here. That was after I cried and said I was so hurt etc., bc they always fly to visit my other siblings.

Gotta run,
J